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[slay_mithos]

Err, I thought the race was supposed to infect preys with parasites as their reproduction method, why are you talking about laying eggs?

[Insanegame27]

Because We can't find a way to introduce parasitism in a good manner.

[than402]

i updated the changes i proposed to the usual link. now, you mentioned something about culling of the weak... shall we apply it? it would be a workshop with a single reaction that would kill the wasp that activated it and then also produce something like "brain juice" which is used to make royal jelly. its use would mainly be population control and selective breeding

[heydude6]

That is a total lie. Of course paracitism is in. I wrote it.

Basically what happened was that the queen was too overpowered to let the victim live after she infected them, so we decided to create larvae that will do the infecting for her. Basically the queen creates eggs which can then be influenced to determine what kind of caste the larvae will become. The larvae then go to battle, glass cannon style and try to get a bite off on the host (think werebeasts). Thing is, the larvae are incredibally weak so a single attack can usually one shot them so the victim needs to be prepared for the larvae (think lever operated traps) before being invaded (although they can take a few head on). After a long amount of time, (if the larvae bit it)  the host then transforms into a caste determined by the larvae.

[smakemupagus]

(Looking at version 32)

Hope some of this is useful and all criticism is meant constructively.

There are a lot of reactions that create items which are already domestic, permitted in the entity, like ITEM_WEAPON_CLAW_HIVE, ITEM_HELM_SCALE_MAIL, ITEM_WEAPON_STAFF_SLING, and ITEM_AMMO_BULLET_L.  There's nothing wrong with that per se but, you might want to also consider a greater variety of reactions for special things, or to make the normal things from alternative resources -- of course the cloth sling is already one nice example of that.  (I tried to look if the taloncrafter is special because she doesn't require an anvil, but unless i'm mistaken it's not in the building list currently). 

You might want to restrict more of the other weapons from the domestic weapons part of entity.  Soldiers are size 120000 so i would lean towards 1-H wielding a halberd, great axe, or zweihander if I have a choice to forge all those weapons.  Since the talons lack a "mercilessly pierce" special attack and there are so many other excellent weapons to choose from,  i don't think i would choose talons very often unless there is somehow a really strong benefit to weapons that use striker skill.

Workers description says "They are responsible for most of the work in a hive,but are all but useless in combat due to their size.", but that is a little misleading i think, they're the same size as goblins, right?  they could easily wield a forged warhammer or battleaxe? 

The paper cement is neat and it might be nice to expand this to be able to turn a wider variety of plant materials into paper cement.

Did you BODY_SIZE all the extra plated soldier castes somewhere?  i only see it for the base castes. 

This comment is just a personal opinion, but the plated soldier castes don't really capture my imagination.  Personally I would have made the transformations require various amounts of (say) meat and transform the soldier into wildly different physical specimens.  But I know, this gets back into the wasp vs. tyranid/zerg debate and you guys want to stick with wasps, so i won't go too far with ideas down this path

Aren't the caste names inconveniently long in game?  ("steel coated soldier Hivemind Wasp")  It's a little bit odd how there's no spaces after periods or commas in descriptions text.  Hopefully it never happens that anyone needs to regular-expression parse or search any of that text

[than402]

(Looking at version 32)

Hope some of this is useful and all criticism is meant constructively.

thank you for the feedback,smake, that was really helpful. i spoilered the rest my reply because it' s a bit too big

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There are a lot of reactions that create items which are already domestic, permitted in the entity, like ITEM_WEAPON_CLAW_HIVE, ITEM_HELM_SCALE_MAIL, ITEM_WEAPON_STAFF_SLING, and ITEM_AMMO_BULLET_L.  There's nothing wrong with that per se but, you might want to also consider a greater variety of reactions for special things, or to make the normal things from alternative resources -- of course the cloth sling is already one nice example of that.  (I tried to look if the taloncrafter is special because she doesn't require an anvil, but unless i'm mistaken it's not in the building list currently). 

the reactions you see and the talonmaker are not used anymore. talons, bullets and metal armor are produced by the forge. the only special armor outside the forge is chitin one(which needs its own set of reactions) and the only special weapons are the sling(cloth and leather) and the wooden sling staff. stone and clay bullets are also on the to do list.

You might want to restrict more of the other weapons from the domestic weapons part of entity.  Soldiers are size 120000 so i would lean towards 1-H wielding a halberd, great axe, or zweihander if I have a choice to forge all those weapons.  Since the claws lack a "mercilessly pierce" special attack and there are so many other excellent weapons to choose from,  i don't think i would choose talons very often unless there is somehow a really strong benefit to weapons that use striker skill.

waspen warfare is only slightly touched at the moment. i just put the weapons there for testing in order to see what works and what doesn't. apparently, wasps need custom weapons. don't underestimate the noble claws, however. they tear apart uncovered flesh and muscle and also have a stab attack for armored opponents. plus they're cheap. if anything, they look really cool without needing to spend a fortune to equip a squad with them.

Workers description says "They are responsible for most of the work in a hive,but are all but useless in combat due to their size.", but that is a little misleading i think, they're the same size as goblins, right?  they could easily wield a forged warhammer or battleaxe? 

it does need changing, that's true. either the text or the caste, or maybe both. they are bad at melee, at least in comparison to waspen war animals (which may or may not be kinda OP at the moment) and soldiers, since waspen armor is bad and their chitin is only copper hard. truth be told, after i worked with differentiating the castes, i do see them getting used as ranged troops, or even for close quarter support. maybe i' ll make them gnome sized. they are not supposed to hold their own in combat very well, at least in melee

The paper cement is neat and it might be nice to expand this to be able to turn a wider variety of plant materials into paper cement.

a good suggestion. we still have some more essential stuff to work on, but yeah, not expanding it would be a missed opportunity.

Did you BODY_SIZE all the extra plated soldier castes somewhere?  i only see it for the base castes.

you didn't miss it, i did  i fixed it now

This comment is just a personal opinion, but the plated soldier castes don't really capture my imagination.  Personally I would have made the transformations require various amounts of (say) meat and transform the soldier into wildly different physical specimens.  But I know, this gets back into the wasp vs. tyranid/zerg debate and you guys want to stick with wasps, so i won't go too far with ideas down this path

i never played starcraft, but i'm a big fan of 40k and i love tyranids . the problem with that is that a) i believe that adding different body parts to different castes of a creature will start causing a bug where the creature bleeds "unknown creature substance", when that creature has over a certain number of castes, and b) i don't know how it would fit thematically. as you said, the wasps resemble more Thri-Kreen and less tyranids. but mutant pet "wasps", golem style, can certainly be done.

Aren't the caste names inconveniently long in game?  ("steel coated soldier Hivemind Wasp")  It's a little bit odd how there's no spaces after periods or commas in descriptions text.  Hopefully it never happens that anyone needs to regular-expression parse or search any of that text

is there a way to put the caste name after the creature name, for example Hivemind Wasp soldier instead of soldier Hivemind Wasp?

[smakemupagus]

i never played starcraft, but i'm a big fan of 40k and i love tyranids . the problem with that is that a) i believe that adding different body parts to different castes of a creature will start causing a bug where the creature bleeds "unknown creature substance", when that creature has over a certain number of castes, and b) i don't know how it would fit thematically. as you said, the wasps resemble more Thri-Kreen and less tyranids. but mutant pet "wasps", golem style, can certainly be done.

Makes sense.  Really my only point was that gameplay mechanics-wise, I thought it was a bit awkward having so many plated castes which are all essentially the same thing. One steel grade and optionally one higher-grade plating would probably be enough.   Nothing wrong at all with the design concept, but just that it's so clunky to implement.

Thematically I was surprised that metamorphasis was driven by metal bars only, rather than by consumption of biological material, maybe silk (for a cocoon), honey or other special protein slurry for energy, or whatever, and maybe indeed a few bits of iron or bone for materials.  But I guess what I hadn't really thought through is that the Plating is really currently representing a trip to the armorer and not a creature metamorphosis.

[heydude6]

Wait if that's how the plating is going to work, that means that we can still make it so that the queen can't wear armour, just make her immune to the syndrome that gives her the armour

[smakemupagus]

I was refering to the set of castes that change only TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:STINGER, not the whole creature's chitin.

so maybe "armorer" isn't the right word ... it's like the guy who dips your stinger into a coating of molten .... well on second thought let's just say "armorer"

[than402]

Exactly, it just represents coating the sting with armor( yes, designing and grafting a meat extension to the stinger, the alternative is a huge health hazard) not implementing it biologically or something. The difference between the castes is in the sting attack. The strongest ones have stingers made of adamantine! Sure, you might occasionally receive some as migrants and some others don't make sense anymore ( the copper one is actually a downgrade, and so it needs to be removed), but they're rare and due to the unique reproduction system you won't see any mithril coated wasps being born. As for it being clunky to mod... Oh god yes! But it's done now, so we might as well use the whole package. It's not clumsy in game, however. Just allow the custom forge for the wasp you want to improve , run the reaction you want and you're done.

[than402]

sooo, aside from designing custom versions of the normal weapons for the wasps(so they can weild them properly) and polishing the castes, i' d also like to expand a bit on the queen: how they' re made, what happens when there's more than one around and where does royal jelly come from? i also want to implement culling of the weak: you find yourself having too many mouths to feed? problem solved. the new batch of wasps is disappointing? problem solved. are you in danger of a tantrum spiral and want to kill some inconsequential yet miserable citizens? do i have to say it again? i will make a new workshop with a reaction which kills the wasp and produces something called "brain essence". gather enough and you'll be able to produce royal jelly. it will also have more uses as the modding progresses.

any objections?

[smakemupagus]

why redoing the normal weapons?

[than402]

you mentioned wasps carry halberds and other two handed weapons with one hand. so i want to make waspen halberds, greatswords et cetera. basically bigger versions of normal two handed weapons. maybe i' ll create some new ones, but for the time being i can't think of anything special.

[slay_mithos]

Is it really necessary?

What I mean is that the two handed weapons in one hand is usually due to the creature being big enough to handle the size, same reason why some small creatures have to use both hands on a one handed one.

The problem with adding new weapons all over the place is that it will once again add many entries to the already long list of weapons, in the military screen.
It's already a pain to deal with that list, when you want to equip "foreign" weaponry (and some races have their 'upgraded' weapons among this foreign list), and any unnecessary entries are mostly going to add to the frustration of players from both the wasp and the other races.

[than402]

Is it really necessary?

What I mean is that the two handed weapons in one hand is usually due to the creature being big enough to handle the size, same reason why some small creatures have to use both hands on a one handed one.

The problem with adding new weapons all over the place is that it will once again add many entries to the already long list of weapons, in the military screen.
It's already a pain to deal with that list, when you want to equip "foreign" weaponry (and some races have their 'upgraded' weapons among this foreign list), and any unnecessary entries are mostly going to add to the frustration of players from both the wasp and the other races.

eh, you're probably right. i'll just play around with the permitted weapons in the entity. after all, the masterwork raws are humungous enough as it is, they don't need me adding redundant weapons all over the place. still, i want to add one or two really big two handed weapons when i think of something new. any ideas?