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[heydude6]

Ok I figured out how to solve the loyalt cascade issue, it's a bit of a hacky soloution but it will have to do for now change the CRAZE interaction to this

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[INTERACTION:CRAZE]
   [I_SOURCE:CREATURE_ACTION]
   [I_TARGET:A:CREATURE]
      [IT_LOCATION:CONTEXT_CREATURE]
      [IT_AFFECTED_CLASS:SUMMONED]
   [I_EFFECT:ADD_SYNDROME]
      [IE_TARGET:A]
      [IE_IMMEDIATE]
      [SYNDROME]
      CE_ADD_TAG:OPPOSED_TO_LIFE:START:0
      [CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION:PROB:100:START:0:END:5]
      [CE:CREATURE:TRANSITION_WASP_EGG:FERTILE]
         [SYN_CLASS:\PERMANENT]
         [SYN_CLASS:ABERRANT_MAD]
         [SYN_CLASS:ABERRANT]

that part in red, you should change it to a different creature. Anyway what happens is that the aberrant spawns on your side slightly crazed beginining to chase you, it then truetransforms into the feral aberrant, and that causes it to no longer  be tamed, strange I know, but it works.

I can just imagine one of the experienced modders wanting to rip out their eyes after seeing my soloution

There should be a way to make it spawn a feral abherrant directly but I can't think of a way to make the game roll a dice to determine wether an abherrant is feral or tame at the current moment, other then my soloution of making the game roll a dice to determine wether the tame abherrant gets transformed into a feral one

[than402]

Ok I figured out how to solve the loyalt cascade issue, it's a bit of a hacky soloution but it will have to do for now change the CRAZE interaction to this

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[INTERACTION:CRAZE]
   [I_SOURCE:CREATURE_ACTION]
   [I_TARGET:A:CREATURE]
      [IT_LOCATION:CONTEXT_CREATURE]
      [IT_AFFECTED_CLASS:SUMMONED]
   [I_EFFECT:ADD_SYNDROME]
      [IE_TARGET:A]
      [IE_IMMEDIATE]
      [SYNDROME]
      CE_ADD_TAG:OPPOSED_TO_LIFE:START:0
      [CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION:PROB:100:START:0:END:5]
      [CE:CREATURE:TRANSITION_WASP_EGG:FERTILE]
         [SYN_CLASS:\PERMANENT]
         [SYN_CLASS:ABERRANT_MAD]
         [SYN_CLASS:ABERRANT]

that part in red, you should change it to a different creature. Anyway what happens is that the aberrant spawns on your side slightly crazed beginining to chase you, it then truetransforms into the feral aberrant, and that causes it to no longer  be tamed, strange I know, but it works.

I can just imagine one of the experienced modders wanting to rip out their eyes after seeing my soloution

There should be a way to make it spawn a feral abherrant directly but I can't think of a way to make the game roll a dice to determine wether an abherrant is feral or tame at the current moment, other then my soloution of making the game roll a dice to determine wether the tame abherrant gets transformed into a feral one

i'm gonna try this.

in the spawn unit script there is this line: civ_id(-1 for enemy, optional)  which would solve everything, but i don't know how to apply it, or even if i can apply it

EDIT: it works! i'm going to apply versions of this to each reaction of the Shrine To The Depths, but we have to find another way to stop the cascade from happening in the Hive Caller, since we can't apply it there (the structure of the reaction is different). what we can do, is get rid of the risk of an attack entirely (the Hive Caller is supposed to be safer and is meant to use in the early game, after all) and just make it so that there is the chance that the reaction will simply do nothing.

[heydude6]

May I ask what the reaction structure of the hivecaller is like?

[than402]

It the one I uploaded before, the one with the probability syndrome

[Sagus]

I think that the reaction simply doing nothing if it fails works best for the Hive Caller; as you said it's an early game structure and it would be unfair to bring too much FUN early.

[than402]

yeah, and the cost is relatively small, but not trivial. i specifically changed the cost to souls to make it harder to abuse. it's just a neat way to earn pets, if you find souls that is. soldier castes are rare, so wasps need their pets for defense.

[than402]

ok, i uploaded a new file. this file is meant for testforts, since i tested the reactions i put them. no doubt there will still be a load of bugs and imbalances to fix, but it's a step forward.

 i also gave queens and drones the pet tag so they can reproduce without wedding (just use dwarf therapist to assign them labors) and i added a new reaction to make drones just so we can run waspen hives until the reproduction is ready. for now, i've made the hive caller simply have a chance to fail. i have the previous one which calls something angry and i may have found a way to prevent the cascade, but i'll try this one first.

i also found out that my interactions to make the wasp survive after she loses her head don't work. maybe i'll try again, but then again wasps are hard enough to kill as it is (with all that hive, the natural weapons and the venom), so maybe this is for the best

what other workshops do you guys think wasps should have access to? (i mean like the pottery and the sawmill)

[heydude6]

I personally say no to the sawmill we already have the wood pulper, it seems redundant to add both buildings. (No steal oak for you)

I say we should debate the ore processor. It would make sense if the wasps were too primitive to efficiently smelt the ore. (Maybe make it so slag can be crafted into paper cement or some weird molasses). Also they don't use metal that often so it balances it out. What are your thoughts?

I vote against archeology (I think only dwarves should have that)

No animal armouring. (If wasps have limited armour why don't the animals as well)

Also wasps shouldn't be able to produce shields. Currently shields are overpowered when wielded by multilimbed opponents.

That's all I have for now. A lot of no's and no yes's (another no) but they are based on the principal less is more.

Final question: What  should the odds be for a fertilized larvae to become a soldier instead of a worker

[than402]

I personally say no to the sawmill we already have the wood pulper, it seems redundant to add both buildings. (No steal oak for you)

good point

I say we should debate the ore processor. It would make sense if the wasps were too primitive to efficiently smelt the ore. (Maybe make it so slag can be crafted into paper cement or some weird molasses). Also they don't use metal that often so it balances it out. What are your thoughts?

the problem with leaving the ore processor out is that wasps won't be able to process metal at all and therefore wasp players have to rely on imports and sieges to arm themselves. though i do agree that advanced stuff (and steel) should be out of reach for the wasps. as for slag, there's no reason wasps should be able to do anything with it. it was meant as a useless byproduct anyway, let's let it live up to his potential. after all, they have all the cheap building material they could hope for in the form of paper cement

I vote against archeology (I think only dwarves should have that)

totally agree

No animal armouring. (If wasps have limited armour why don't the animals as well)

yup. waspen pets are badass after all. we're talking big, poisonous scorpions and worms twice as big as horses, not dogs and boars

Also wasps shouldn't be able to produce shields. Currently shields are overpowered when wielded by multilimbed opponents.

true, but they'll be able to loot or import shields. maybe give them a huge penalty on shield usage?

That's all I have for now. A lot of no's and no yes's (another no) but they are based on the principal less is more.

thank you.

Final question: What  should the odds be for a fertilized larvae to become a soldier instead of a worker

about 10%

[Meph]

maybe give them a huge penalty on shield usage?

Itemsyndrome would allow something like that, give all shield items a syndrome that only affects wasps. The only problem will be, that soldiers automatically go for shields.

[Splint]

Could always limit them to bucklers or some very poor shield substitute (say a... I dunno, parry guard that has less block chance than a regular buckler and only amount to a roundshield with 3 combined?) Might do the job, forcing them to loot or otherwise manufacture better shields.

[than402]

maybe give them a huge penalty on shield usage?

Itemsyndrome would allow something like that, give all shield items a syndrome that only affects wasps. The only problem will be, that soldiers automatically go for shields.

actually, i just thought removing the shields from the entity and giving them a huge penalty on shield exp gain would have the same effect. they won't arrive with shield skill and will gain exp extremely slowly.

Could always limit them to bucklers or some very poor shield substitute (say a... I dunno, parry guard that has less block chance than a regular buckler and only amount to a roundshield with 3 combined?) Might do the job, forcing them to loot or otherwise manufacture better shields.

the point is not to make it difficult for them to gain shields, the point is to stop shield using from being a tactic at all

[heydude6]

maybe give them a huge penalty on shield usage?

Itemsyndrome would allow something like that, give all shield items a syndrome that only affects wasps. The only problem will be, that soldiers automatically go for shields.

can't they just forbid them. If we didn't make shields garbage enough for wasps for players to willingly not use them, then we did something wrong. Maybe preventing them from gaining any exp in the shield bearer skill at all, does that prevent wielding 3 shields at once from being op if the wasp is level 0 in shield using?

[than402]

they will still wield 3 shields at once, but if we make them earn exp at a 1% rate (or zero, can we make them earn xp at 0%?) and have no skills by themselves, they will suck at it. at least that's the plan.

[heydude6]

actually -1 but yah, that works