Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Eagleon]

You seem particularly anxious to do the things that you want to be doing right now, because it's a waste otherwise, because time can be wasted. I would tend to chalk that up to anxiety about the future, the world you live in, and general hopelessness about your place there. Why do something if it takes your limited time away from the other thing? Maybe some existential dread coming into play, a healthy dose of "oh god I'm going to die a financial consultant with no friends blah!"

I have no answer. I can only say I've been there, I've given up on school because of the same reasons, and I regret it. I would write music instead of work on papers, dropped out because I didn't think any of it mattered if I couldn't - look at what it takes to make it in the "democratized" indie music Revolution(R) to have some idea about how I'm doing. The hilarious thing is that my university had an exceptional music department; I could have just transferred, and learned some more standard, accepted practice for my composition, gotten some work teaching guitar, etc. Instead of being a janitor for six years.

So yeah. The realization that you will not do better by backtracking and abandoning the opportunity directly in front of you is hopefully something that can be conveyed through writing. I think the best solution to getting through it with any kind of financial security is sheer pragmatism and honesty about your skills and how you can sell them. If you don't know how you can sell them, find out. If you don't have the skills that go with selling them, get them. Spend a bit of boring now, have security and satisfaction with your work later. It seems obvious in retrospect. There are probably people making money in some way similar to how you'd like to. They probably aren't that special or exceptional compared to you, they've just done the work and research involved with finding a niche and squeezing money out of it. And it might be hard work. But it's still probably not luck.

Don't quit school. Instead use it as a place you can find those things out. Take the career consulting resources you have available seriously, take the critique and criticism you can gain from your professors as a clue to what you may need to work on in relation to what you want to do, rather than a judgement on what you should be, and you can make an informed decision, rather than throwing your hands up and giving up - trust me, from personal experience, the bitter satisfaction you get from saying "the world sucks, and here I am" is short lived and needlessly self-destructive. If I'm out of line here, or depressing, I apologize, but that's what it sounds like to me.

edit: I guess TLDR, look at what you're doing to procrastinate. If it isn't what you're at school for, go to school "for" that instead (really more like around it - learn stuff that relates to it at least). Keep moving, keep a goal in mind, be realistic about what your life is going to be like at the end of it all, but don't obsess over how much time you're taking to get there, because unless it's really something you can make a living on without university, it's going to cost you more in the long run to rough it.

[Shazbot]

Let us look at the course of your life logically.

I shall presume you goof off through video games. Presently, video games are quite tempting, but they are limited by computing power. Moore's Law states that computing power will double every two years. It follows that video games will be an order of magnitude more awesome in thirty years. Meanwhile, your earning potential will not appreciably increase unless you actively devote time to it. The optimal strategy is to work now, accumulate wealth, and then goof off afterwards.

Do you wish to play lousy turn-of-the-century video games now, or play full-body immersing video games thirty years from now? Do you want to play today's bastard stepchildren of Pong between part-time shifts of McDonalds, or play the future PC Gaming Super-race non-stop for thirty years after you retire from a decent salaried position? What I'm driving at is the work you do now will let you goof off to a far higher standard later, rather than goofing off as much as possible without getting fired from some nowhere job. And it doesn't matter how you're goofing off. Simply having good money in your pocket will allow you to do the things you'd otherwise sigh and say you just can't afford.

Not to mention you might find real life to be more entertaining than whatever keeps you up so that 7am is too early for you.

[Meph]

Let us look at the course of your life logically.

I shall presume you goof off through video games. Presently, video games are quite tempting, but they are limited by computing power. Moore's Law states that computing power will double every two years. It follows that video games will be an order of magnitude more awesome in thirty years. Meanwhile, your earning potential will not appreciably increase unless you actively devote time to it. The optimal strategy is to work now, accumulate wealth, and then goof off afterwards.

Do you wish to play lousy turn-of-the-century video games now, or play full-body immersing video games thirty years from now? Do you want to play today's bastard stepchildren of Pong between part-time shifts of McDonalds, or play the future PC Gaming Super-race non-stop for thirty years after you retire from a decent salaried position? What I'm driving at is the work you do now will let you goof off to a far higher standard later, rather than goofing off as much as possible without getting fired from some nowhere job. And it doesn't matter how you're goofing off. Simply having good money in your pocket will allow you to do the things you'd otherwise sigh and say you just can't afford.

Not to mention you might find real life to be more entertaining than whatever keeps you up so that 7am is too early for you.

This is lacking in several ways. First of all he never mentions goofing off or being distracted. He also never mentioned video games. Video games, while getting better and better, are also getting cheaper, not more expensive.

The problem I see with "accumulate wealth then goof off" is this:
When you are young, you have time and energy, but no money. (You are a pupil/student)
When you are middle-adged, you have engergy and money, but no time. (You have a job)
When you are old, you have money and time, but no energy. (You are retired, have life savings, but are getting old)

This is a gross oversimplification of course, but overall I dont think its worth spending X amount of years in a way you dont want, just for the money that allows you to spend Y amount of years doing what you want. Most of all because you never know how many years you actually have, and because I dont value money that highly. As a student who already invest 5-6 years into a degree, you are already 5-6 years behind, and without having earned a single dollar, and there is no way to estimate what X and Y will be... how many years you actually have to work, and how long you have after that to enjoy your time.

[acetech09]

Eagleon used the phrase "Sheer pragmatism". Points for that. Seems like you just have to dig in and work towards your goals. It might not be fun but it's necessary for the end result. One could say that I have a pretty great career established right now, doing what I love, but damn it wasn't easy to get here. Having a goal of doing what you love long-term doesn't imply of doing what you love right now.

But also, don't give up, and give everything as much effort as you can. Work toward doing what you love. Work toward something that you think will make your life better. I can't stress that enough, and all around me I see evidence of how far that will get you.

[Shook]

Oh man, thanks so much for all your advice, guys! There's just one big hindrance in the way: Most of you mention a goal. I don't know what my goal is, and the only thing i definitely know that will make my life better is to get rid of all this anxiety and my other mental difficulties.

First of all he never mentions goofing off or being distracted. He also never mentioned video games. Video games, while getting better and better, are also getting cheaper, not more expensive.

It's not entirely wrong though, video games ARE a large part of my life, although it's actually getting smaller at a slow rate. However, they're not what i would refer to as goofing off; they're more like relaxing and having fun. Goofing around is shookspeak for messing around with various creative projects, frequently involving being a silly goof in the process.

Now, please excuse me for not responding to all your posts in detail, i'm not really feeling for a giant ramblepost again this time, but rest assured that i have read and am thinking about every single word you guys have written. I've never been a huge fan of how much emphasis there is on hard work in this life, as i am an exceptionally lazy man, but it's slowly dawning upon me that there's no way around it this time.

Pardon me for engaging in stream of consciousness rambling once more, but it's often the only way i reach any conclusions. Right now, i feel i must mention that i'd probably be okay with having a job in some graphical department. It doesn't necessarily have to be like "get paid to draw whatever you want all day wee butterflies and fairies", something less imaginative than that would work as well. Problem is, i'm not really good enough for anything, and i'm improving at a god-awful rate, AND my opinion on hardcore improvement studies is almost the same as homework. But nobody wants to hire an incompetent artist. I do actually have ONE dream that's worth mentioning: I would like to become super good at art, but preferrably either instantly or at my own speed (guess which one is more realistic). I despise being shoehorned through anything, and i also think that rushing is a complete waste, which is why deadlines are among the top things in this world that i HATE. Unfortunately, most things in this society comes strapped with a deadline in one way or another, and my preferred pace rarely meshes well with that deadline.

[Meph]

Start a webcomic.

Its a slow way of improving your art, at your own pace, its pretty cheap (only cost is the server/domain cost), you can be creative and get feedback from a larger audience, and still can do university/job in your RL. And if it becomes famous in many, many years from now, you will get money from it. Just look at questionablecontent, the owner makes over 10k a month by now.

[Eagleon]

Yeah, professional-level art (things like graphics design, concept art, etc.) takes time and loads and loads of practice, but I absolutely reject the concept of 'talent'. You're improving slowly because you're gaining the skills to analyze your own art on your own - instruction can jump-start that. Your own speed is fine - if you have the guidance of another artist and the attention span to learn, your own speed will just be much faster. Even so, it doesn't happen instantly - if you want to draw something that resembles anything at all, you have to understand why it looks the way it does and how to control your medium to represent it. Unless you're an autodidactic genius, that takes some training. And it never ends. You'll always be learning if you pursue this goal. DaVinci learned until he died.

I hate deadlines too. I don't think anyone likes them. It's there to prevent procrastination, but it took me a while to realize I could forget about them and use other methods to motivate myself, like actually enjoying and getting into what I'm doing

Regardless, my advice would be to get rid of the thought that you're a 'good' or 'bad' artist, and focus on what's in front of you - specifics are great for motivation because you don't have to worry about everything else you're bad at while practicing drawing feet, or fingers, or cloth, celtic knotwork, cars, door knobs, etc. etc. etc. Learning to enjoy perfecting some mistake you're making, spotting those mistakes, etc. is a huge part of art. And fine art degrees are great for saying "I am a competent artist" to employers without feeling the slightest bit of guilt. Not only because they do teach you traditional art, but because it's not something they can take away from you even though you, personally, will always know you could be better.

[Shadowgandor]

Let us look at the course of your life logically.

I shall presume you goof off through video games. Presently, video games are quite tempting, but they are limited by computing power. Moore's Law states that computing power will double every two years. It follows that video games will be an order of magnitude more awesome in thirty years. Meanwhile, your earning potential will not appreciably increase unless you actively devote time to it. The optimal strategy is to work now, accumulate wealth, and then goof off afterwards.

Do you wish to play lousy turn-of-the-century video games now, or play full-body immersing video games thirty years from now? Do you want to play today's bastard stepchildren of Pong between part-time shifts of McDonalds, or play the future PC Gaming Super-race non-stop for thirty years after you retire from a decent salaried position? What I'm driving at is the work you do now will let you goof off to a far higher standard later, rather than goofing off as much as possible without getting fired from some nowhere job. And it doesn't matter how you're goofing off. Simply having good money in your pocket will allow you to do the things you'd otherwise sigh and say you just can't afford.

Not to mention you might find real life to be more entertaining than whatever keeps you up so that 7am is too early for you.

That's actually similar to my approach. I work in order to do the things I love doing, temporary as they may be (parachute jumping, flying, car). The job itself is a means to an end and that's fine with me. I'm not the most ambitious person but it works for me

[smakemupagus]

You're experiencing the human condition.  Lots of people feel like they are unique.  Lots of people don't love work.  You'll figure it out.

[Retropunch]

This is going to be harsh, and I'm not going to sugar coat it, because it sounds as though people have been doing that to you for far too long.

This isn't ENTIRELY wrong; i do have a general idea of my shape and desired hole, but that shape is rather awkward and formless. I don't feel like i've seen any hole that i can actually fit in, and that bothers me somewhat. Now, i'd personally be fine with being that odd shape that doesn't quite fit in anywhere, because i am a self-proclaimed excentric, but unfortunately, it doesn't really feel like there's room for the odd shapes outside of the holes. If you don't fit in, you're either gonna shave off some corners or you're shit outta luck. That's a rather nasty feeling, bordering on hopelessness, because i know that the material of my particular shape is extremely difficult to work with.

You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. Seriously, everyone feels that they are different and that they don't exactly fit anything available, but that's because careers/life aren't tailored to you specifically. Yes, even if you 'make your own way' and become the next Elon Musk, you're still going to have to fit in with everything else. This isn't some sort of oppression, this is just how life works.

What this means is that if i do find something that i actually enjoy doing, i can easily immerse myself and usually get fairly good at it (bear with me for the self-glorifying terms, i don't enjoy speaking like that). On the other hand, over the 22 years i've lived, i seem to have developed an alarmingly extreme aversion to things that i don't care for. It's seriously interfering with my studying, because homework is one of the things in the world i care the least for. Whenever others urge me to do such things that i don't care for at all, i get extremely annoyed, and the burning question "WHY?" flares up in my mind, overriding nearly everything else, and it's never answered properly. Now, my dear mother, as much as i love her, doesn't really seem to understand how powerful this feeling is. It's not one that can be overcome with thoughts such as "i'll need this later" or "i just have to do it because they know better". That's a bit like bringing a bucket of water to a firestorm.

Seriously!? SERIOUSLY!? You have an 'alarmingly extreme aversion to things you don't care for'. This is called 'not wanting to do things that I don't like' - EVERYONE HAS THAT. Seriously, this is just you being a crybaby. I'm guessing you avoided the Danish Draft - I'd think about applying to your nearest recruiting station for a real taste of 'extreme aversion to things I don't care for'.

Therefore, it is extremely important to me that i find an occupation that i at least do care for, and will keep doing so. Problem is, i hear all this talk that without a degree in something, i'm not going to get a job that isn't monkey labour. Another problem is, it is extremely unlikely that there is a degree out there that doesn't involve at least one class that i don't care for. Those two problems form a problem², and that's a very very nasty problem.

This is true these days, regardless of what any happy-go-lucky hippy tells you. It's unfortunate, but it is true.

Long story short, i don't feel like i'm a viable build for this world. I don't feel like there's room for me if i can't chop off my arms to fit in, i don't feel like there's a hole to my shape, and all those other metaphors for feeling like there's no need for a guy like me in the world*. I feel more like the world needs to accept my existence like a funny beetle in a jar, and keep me there because it's not bothered by my existence and it can't be arsed to throw me out.

I am not a beautiful and unique snowflake, I am not a beautiful and unique snowflake...

Is the real world really that much of a scary asshole, or am i being too pessimistic? And on the note, am i the only one with such an aversion to undesirable activities? ... Am i the only one who has problems finding his place in this world? Pardon the text wall, it needed to be written.

NO. This whole 'I'm not doing something if there is a part of it I don't like' attitude will get you precisely nowhere in life. By all means search around for the thing your passionate about, but even if it's the greatest thing in the world to you, it's STILL GOING TO BE HARD AND HAVE PARTS YOU DON'T LIKE. You won't get anywhere if you think life is supposed to be easy - which is exactly what you're saying it is. It's not and it's insulting to everyone who's had to graft day and night to make something happen that you think it is.

Seriously, buckle up, grow up and wo/man the fuck up.

[Orange Wizard]

I think that was needlessly harsh, but it's hard to tell, because your quote tags are borked .

[Retropunch]

I think that was needlessly harsh, but it's hard to tell, because your quote tags are borked .

It was harsh, and possibly a bit extreme, but someone saying that they have an 'extreme aversion to things that they don't like' and thinking that they are different because of that is going to get that response.
The faster Shook can learn this the better in my opinion, and dancing around the issue isn't going to do anyone (especially Shook) any favours.

[Shook]

Well, since you're decent enough to be completely honest and blunt with me (which i do appreciate), i shall also allow myself to use more powerful terms.

There's not really anything there i haven't heard before. Also, i don't use the term "extreme aversion" lightly, i bloody well mean it as i say it, and i'm not exaggerating when i describe how it feels. I know exactly how a light or moderate aversion feels, and this is MILES beyond what would be considered normal, and i realize that it's a big fucking problem that isn't going to be solved by itself or by faceramming it. With all due respect, i don't think you fully understand; i DON'T want to have this problem, nor do i care about being a pretty little snowflake princess on a thousand flaming marshmellow peas. This is a deep subconscious issue that's tormenting me and making my life feel far more difficult than it actually is. Shouting at me about it has done diddly squat for the past many years, because i've HEARD EVERYTHING. I've had so many proverbial kicks in the bum that my buttocks have turned into proverbial tortoise shields. This isn't just "don't wanna". I can deal with "don't wanna". This is more closely relatable (not equal) to being held at gunpoint by two completely different sides who want you to do opposite things, since that's also a situation that can't be solved by brute force.

You'd be right in assuming that i managed to evade conscription, but that was because of health issues. I had asthma at the time, and although i don't have that any more, the thought of volunteering for military duty is WORSE than keeping up the study. I hate getting exhausted, i hate getting up early in the morning, and i hate people bossing me around. Chances are that i would break down hard (or get punished for cursing loudly at an officer), and that's absolutely not going to benefit me in any way, given that my psyche is already dangerously fragile.

Do note though, i don't consider you an arse for what you've said, even if you don't care. I'd love to write responses to all of you awesome people, but i don't have enough time right now (i will later, though).

[Vector]

.

[Retropunch]

Well, since you're decent enough to be completely honest and blunt with me (which i do appreciate), i shall also allow myself to use more powerful terms.

There's not really anything there i haven't heard before. Also, i don't use the term "extreme aversion" lightly, i bloody well mean it as i say it, and i'm not exaggerating when i describe how it feels. I know exactly how a light or moderate aversion feels, and this is MILES beyond what would be considered normal, and i realize that it's a big fucking problem that isn't going to be solved by itself or by faceramming it. With all due respect, i don't think you fully understand; i DON'T want to have this problem, nor do i care about being a pretty little snowflake princess on a thousand flaming marshmellow peas. This is a deep subconscious issue that's tormenting me and making my life feel far more difficult than it actually is. Shouting at me about it has done diddly squat for the past many years, because i've HEARD EVERYTHING. I've had so many proverbial kicks in the bum that my buttocks have turned into proverbial tortoise shields. This isn't just "don't wanna". I can deal with "don't wanna". This is more closely relatable (not equal) to being held at gunpoint by two completely different sides who want you to do opposite things, since that's also a situation that can't be solved by brute force.

You'd be right in assuming that i managed to evade conscription, but that was because of health issues. I had asthma at the time, and although i don't have that any more, the thought of volunteering for military duty is WORSE than keeping up the study. I hate getting exhausted, i hate getting up early in the morning, and i hate people bossing me around. Chances are that i would break down hard (or get punished for cursing loudly at an officer), and that's absolutely not going to benefit me in any way, given that my psyche is already dangerously fragile.

Do note though, i don't consider you an arse for what you've said, even if you don't care. I'd love to write responses to all of you awesome people, but i don't have enough time right now (i will later, though).

The problem is, it doesn't matter how extremely adversed you are to hard work, or how much you don't want to feel like that, hating work is still all it is. Saying you hate getting up early in the morning and hate people bossing you around is EXACTLY what everyone else feels. Like really, really hates it - to the point of blackout insanity.

Do you think the guy that got laid off his good job and now works in the shitty fast food joint turning over burgers all day whilst getting screamed at by some scrawny teenager on a power trip is NOT hating it with every. single. fucking. ounce as much as you are?!!!?


I think the problem is that you've turned it into too big of a problem (that somehow hating work = a mental problem) and that you feel as though 'you hurt more than others'. Regardless of how much you feel as though you're trying to get through this, you first need to understand - and really, really understand - that your aversion (or burning hatred) for hard work is no different from anyone else's - you're just saying it whilst everyone else is keeping it inside. Good on you for saying it, but at the same time, you're not going to get anywhere in life by doing so.

For the record, I really do care in a way, because I used to have a similar mind set. I could coast along and just about pass at most things, I hated applying myself and hated anyone telling me what to do (and would lash out if I was) - eventually I was made to face it through a number of situations and realised that you just can't get anywhere without determination and work.

I'd recommend the military for anyone - if they break you, they'll piece you back together stronger than before. If that's not your thing, try a martial art. Something that takes discipline and where you have to work through the pain to get results. Overall, just apply yourself to something no matter how much it 'hurts'. Change your personal struggle from 'how can I not hate work so much' to 'how can I dominate Info.Tech./Judo/StarCraft and be the greatest the world has ever seen.' - that's how you get somewhere, and as soon as you start really, really dominating, all thoughts of hard work will disappear.