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Author Topic: The United Assembly OOC - Bureaucracy, Red Tape, Charters (8 Players Needed!)  (Read 10838 times)

Squeegy

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Re: The United Assembly OOC - Bureaucracy, Red Tape, Charters
« Reply #75 on: September 17, 2014, 09:42:57 am »

I think the charter is exceptionally well-written considering it was conceived over the course of about six hours in a feverish stroke of inspiration in the dead of night. I also find it extremely amusing that the very first real action the UA is apparently planning on taking is modifying its charter. The only thing I consider egregious in retrospect is the 24-hour waiting period, but it was intended to give everyone in different time zones time to prepare for a forum or announce that they won't be able to attend it.

If I may be permitted to wax philosophical (and please remember that I make no claim to any authority over what you guys do in this game), you should be careful what you wish for. There is a reason that founding documents are written to be vague, that being that it allows for more flexibility in their interpretation, both so that the most convenient explanation can be selected at the moment, and so that you don't have to go back and rewrite it every single time it becomes out of date. You seem gung ho about amending the process so that you can rush things through as fast as possible, but have you considered that you might not want them to go through so quickly? The best possible course of action to create the most expedient possible United Assembly would be to pass an amendment allowing the Policy Committee to remove chapters (it is currently not capable of doing this or adding sections to chapters), and then removing all of them except for chapter 8, and amending section 2 of chapter 8 to include every single proposal that is currently in another committee. That way you wouldn't have to pass any proposals through any other committee, they would simply originate in the General Assembly and be immediately passed or struck down.

But there's a reason it's structured the way it is and that's because it's intended to have checks and balances. Power is split up and stored with a select few people, and nothing can be rushed through the Assembly fast enough that a delegate could have no power over it. In fact, a change I would make to the charter is to add a rule that no one on the Security Council can be on the Policy Committee or vice versa. It's important to deliberate on things in politics rather than simply make decisions in the heat of the moment. A United Assembly consisting entirely of the General Assembly would place all power in the voting majority. Anything that 7 or more countries wanted to happen would happen. But if you have a little foresight, you might consider that there are some things you wouldn't want to leave up to the tyranny of the majority.

Phew, that was a lot of wax. I don't like making posts like this because I don't want my opinion to influence that of voting delegates. I have absolutely no desire to tell you guys what to do; I relish seeing the ways your conflicting wills interact. That's why I give you creative control over your nation. In a real political situation like this delegates would have to answer to the will of their nation's government. But even though you don't play as your nation's government, since you decide what your nation is like, you in effect decide what your nation would want you to do. The game would be less fun if I passed on messages from your nation's leaders telling you how to vote. Similarly, I don't want to dictate your priorities or tell you what is or isn't the best way to do things. In fact, I look forward to seeing if some of the actions you make have consequences you didn't expect. I just want to create a sense of an outside world that you are a part of and have a tangible impact on, rather than just blowing in the wind. Hence, my only contribution to the IC thread is filing and newspaper clippings.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 09:44:44 am by Squeegy »
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Sheb

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Re: The United Assembly OOC - Bureaucracy, Red Tape, Charters
« Reply #76 on: September 17, 2014, 09:50:00 am »

Well, in the current system you're creating stuff to do faster than we can react to them AND a majority of players cannot do anything at any given time (Except when the GA is in session). Other than that, the rest if very nice.
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Squeegy

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Re: The United Assembly OOC - Bureaucracy, Red Tape, Charters
« Reply #77 on: September 17, 2014, 09:57:13 am »

Yes, that's quite accurate to real life. It is impossible for even the most lean, well-oiled political machine to respond to events as quickly as new ones are created. In real life it takes years for Congress to respond to problems. If you expect to react to stuff even at the same speed it's created, you will be sorely disappointed in any political office and this game is no exception.

Besides, there's a little bit of cognitive dissonance there. What (IMHO) you should be doing when none of your committees are in session is preparing proposals to put forth the next time one of your committees is in session. Which is why having new events cropping up all the time is good, it gives you something to plan while you're waiting. Plus, there's always roleplaying. Also, the fact that most committees exclude a majority of the players means that they will go much more quickly. Instead of waiting on 12 people, you'll be waiting on 5.

On the topic of things to do while you're waiting, though, I was considering making an entirely freeform RP thread called "Life Under the United Assembly," which people could drop in and out of at their leisure, which would simply be a modern day slice-of-life RP allowing people to flesh out their nations and imagine what it might be like for ordinary citizens living under this international body. You could depict events on the ground that are merely summarized in the newspaper clippings (like Hurricane Jennifer), show the effects of proposals passed by the UA, etc. Does that sound interesting?
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Re: The United Assembly OOC - Bureaucracy, Red Tape, Charters
« Reply #78 on: September 17, 2014, 10:01:55 am »

Well, then the end results is people discussing behind closed door, which is less fun for everyone.
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Squeegy

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Re: The United Assembly OOC - Bureaucracy, Red Tape, Charters
« Reply #79 on: September 17, 2014, 10:03:37 am »

Strong words from someone who's been discussing a proposal behind closed doors practically since the game began.

Besides, fleshing out a proposal before it's submitted is not discussing it behind closed doors. I'm not talking about collaboration between delegates, I'm talking about preparing the text that you're going to submit. You have to admit the budget proposal is pretty lackluster and short. It could have been a lot better if everyone had had 24 hours to prepare a budget proposal.
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Re: The United Assembly OOC - Bureaucracy, Red Tape, Charters
« Reply #80 on: September 17, 2014, 10:07:19 am »

Oh, I know, I'd much rather have a forum to discuss it in, but that's why I'm trying to have the Charter amended.
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Squeegy

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Re: The United Assembly OOC - Bureaucracy, Red Tape, Charters
« Reply #81 on: September 17, 2014, 10:10:37 am »

Anyway, I don't agree; I think political intrigue is a major part of a game like this. Everyone should advocate being above board about everything but if they actually were then it would be fairly sterile and boring. I gave all of you agendas that are mutually exclusive with any other nation's agenda. You all have something that pits you against each other. You also all have something that requires you to rely on each other. That's how the United Assembly should be, IMO; a delicate balancing act between competition and co-operation.
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Re: The United Assembly OOC - Bureaucracy, Red Tape, Charters
« Reply #82 on: September 17, 2014, 10:35:12 am »

Fair point, let me rephrase it: the current setup drive underground conversation that could happen in the open, spoiling everyone's fun.
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
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Squeegy

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Re: The United Assembly OOC - Bureaucracy, Red Tape, Charters
« Reply #83 on: September 17, 2014, 10:43:00 am »

Counterpoint: it doesn't force it underground, you actively choose to take it underground because you are impatient.

By the way, the reason amendments are voted on one by one is so that they do not conflict with each other.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 11:56:12 am by Squeegy »
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10ebbor10

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Re: The United Assembly OOC - Bureaucracy, Red Tape, Charters
« Reply #84 on: September 17, 2014, 01:38:18 pm »

Indeed, had I not taken a rather interesting perspective on the voting system, then nothing would have happened.
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Comrade Shamrock

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Re: The United Assembly OOC - Bureaucracy, Red Tape, Charters
« Reply #85 on: September 17, 2014, 02:17:17 pm »

This may not be a game for me as I'm currently in school and on nights of heavy workload I miss out on a lot of what happens and things end too quickly. So I would like to be replaced. Have fun guys.

Orange Wizard

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Re: The United Assembly OOC - Bureaucracy, Red Tape, Charters
« Reply #86 on: September 17, 2014, 02:34:46 pm »

Aw.
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Squeegy

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That's a shame, I liked the stand you were making.

It's kind of ironic how there is someone saying it's going too slow and someone saying it's going so fast they have to drop out.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 04:21:23 pm by Squeegy »
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Squeegy

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e: Whoops, misread.

Sheb's amendment trick would likely be legal within the charter. Very clever, Sheb.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 07:16:14 am by Squeegy »
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Well, under the Belgian constitution, to amend an article it needs to be "opened for modification", then everyone gets to propose modification (after elections), so that's how I got the idea.

Note that on at least one occasion, they got around the rule by editing the article stating how to modify the consistution to allow the change article that weren't open, by inserting a sentence saying basically "This article doesn't apply for the year 2007".
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