Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Meph]

We also digressed from the initial question quite a bit.

Its not "What can Toady do/not do to improve FPS?", but "Is the active world worth having way less FPS in the first place?"

[GavJ]

It is reasonable for Toady to offer a switch off option for it.

But it is also reasonable for him to maybe decide NOT to offer a switch off option. Because if he does, people will complain even more next time when the burden of it gets heavier with new active world features, which pushes him further into developing two totally different games. He might want to just focus on testing and guaranteeing ONE game, without having to worry and spend time on whether XYZ features break the game when you turn off active world.

[MDFification]

Active world is worth it - the features that enable us to use it meaningfully in play just aren't there yet. Remember, we're playing a pre-alpha here, not a finished game. We really can't complain if the engine is updated in a way that is annoying but in the future will be necessary for the complete game.

I'd say we can't know if it's reasonable for Toady to include an off switch for the living world - we may think we want one, sure, but do any of us really have an idea how much coding it would require for him to enable a simple on/off toggle for the living world? Especially given that future releases will all incorporate the living world... it's a questionable thing to ask, I think, considering that Toady is very reasonable about trying to put as many options in the players hands as possible, and probably has good reasons for not doing so with this.

[Footkerchief]

"Is the active world worth having way less FPS in the first place?"

And just to be clear, this is a classic loaded question.  There's no basis (AFAIK) for the supposition that world simulation is a major cause of lag, and there's plenty of evidence pointing to unrelated causes.

[slothen]

Instead there should be a way to limit or halt world simulation through options.

I'm skeptical of this, either as a temporary stopgap now or as an option later.

[StagnantSoul]

Never thought of that. If half the people played without the living world, and half did, Toady would have to cater to both groups. As long as a lot of optimization goes on, I'm happy.

[Salmeuk]

Yes.

I hope the OP has read the latest blog post regarding lag, and begins to stuff socks into his gaping mouth.

No, that was rude. Just one sock will do.

[DG]

Won't we all be using quantum silicon based supercomputers or something long before DF is finished, anyway? I don't expect Toady to be pushing at the boundaries of computing for long*, let alone forever.

*Caveat: I don't think 5-10 years is long.

[GavJ]

Won't we all be using quantum silicon based supercomputers or something long before DF is finished, anyway? I don't expect Toady to be pushing at the boundaries of computing for long*, let alone forever.

*Caveat: I don't think 5-10 years is long.

That's what everybody said in the 1980s too. 

Still, he seems to be working on optimization right now, so thats fine. And a few updates ago too.

[StagnantSoul]

Hopes advance fast, dreams advance faster, real life goes at a crawl through molasses under fifty times gravity with ten slade boulders on your back.

[WordsandChaos]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't DF try to calculate every single path every single tile? So if a dwarf wants to get from A to B - they don't path A to B, they path from A - B in fifty different ways, per tile. So if you've got fifty different Dwarves, the pathing calculations alone rack up to astronomical heights. Maybe a 'culling' line or something wouldn't go amiss? Dwarf selects the most efficient path, culls all other options, follows that path until done. If the path breaks, becomes obstructed, etc, re-path, repeating the same culling, etc. That way you start with 5000 paths from 50 Dwarves and end up with 50 paths.

[GavJ]

I doubt it calculates every path every tick. If it does, that's dumb and he should fix it immediately. Most conservative reasonable method I think would be "check your path whenever a tile is built or dug on the same tick (only check along your path), if obstructed repath"

But again, I doubt it does that currently.

[Meph]

Dwarf Fortress uses a modified A* search algorithm for pathfinding.

[GavJ]

Dwarf Fortress uses a modified A* search algorithm for pathfinding.

Right, the question was how often it uses the modified A* algorithm, though. Once every tick? Or once at the start of the path and then not again unless hitting an obstacle or predicting an obstacle etc.

(Tangential topic again in the first place, though)

[WordsandChaos]

Right. My understanding is that the Dwarves calculate completely arbitrary paths. This is why people advise against random dead ends and tunnels and so on - because instead of bypassing the tunnel, the pathing algorithm includes that random dead end tunnel that branches off from a hallway halfway between point A and B, but is actually completely irrelevant to the journey at hand. So, theoretically, shouldn't be considered past the initial stages of making the path because it does not lead to destination B.

Again, I could be misunderstanding that problem.

As for the world moving fps topic: I honestly haven't that significant a change. My 2010 laptop runs DF about the same as it always has. it chugs through the initial calender and runs anywhere between 20-30 fps. I'm currently on a map with a tonne of trees, a 5 z level waterfall running into a wide three-pronged river, 20 Dwarves at 30 FPS with a long stretch of 3 tile wide hallway, and no less than 6 other programs running at the same time. My laptop is no powerhouse.

I honestly don't think the world-awakening is making that much of an impact. Even if it was, DF is turn based. It's not really affecting the game in a state that makes it utterly unplayable - it's slower, but it's not like Counter strike where you die because you're dropping frames against a guy with a better rig and a faster connection.