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[Orange Wizard]

I was making a joke. I don't actually care about breeding animals. And there's no way I'd bother trawling through the raws to add the correct tags, it'd take far too long.

[Spectre Incarnate]

to be fair, people also edit their raws to make dwarves not need to eat or drink and other such things; in general, human rights offenses are par for the course wherever convenient for people playing this game

I realize that, as I make several "gamey" modifications myself for fun. I don't have a problem with changing orientation tags. By all means, go for it if that is what you want to do. I was more referring to the complaint about *having to choose* to change the raws. The comment just didn't sit right with me. Didn't sit right with my family either..

I was making a joke. I don't actually care about breeding animals. And there's no way I'd bother trawling through the raws to add the correct tags, it'd take far too long.

Did not see any words, emoticons, or anything indicating that it was a joke, so I'm not entirely sure I believe this. And even if it was a joke, I don't personally think it was cool. But at this point, I will leave that up to the thread owner to decide.

[Chipperbane]

Well, he said "Sigh. Human rights are so obstructive." I took that as a massive dose of sarcasm, leading me to believe he was joking.

More to the point - two tiger cubs. Yeees.

To be entirely frank, even though I'm a gay guy I could really care less about the reproductive rights of a fictional feral leopard. I just want leopard cubs that can grow up to become leopards which can become war leopards, which can then eat my enemies. I'm not going to forcefully change him because, admittedly, that feels squicky. I'll settle with just glowering in stern disapproval and indicate my lack of leopard cubs with emphatic head tilts to the two tiger cubs.

[Orange Wizard]

Most of what I say is a joke, honestly. Sometimes that includes things that are fairly off-colour.
I prefer to leave it up to the reader to decide if they're going to take me seriously.

Anyway, congratulations on the tiger cubs. War tigers are pretty awesome.

[reality.auditor]

So sorry you have to "fix" your raws so they don't follow simulated real life patterns that don't directly benefit you.

I think problem is that DF default - 25% - is way too large.

In humans, reported occurence is 5-10% (depending on whom you ask and how ideologically he is inclined). Estabilishing % in animals is hard for obvious reasons, but using 5% value would be decent approximation.

[Chevaleresse]

By the way, editing raws en-masse isn't hard. If your text editor has a find-and-replace function, you can add tags to every critter in the document by doing something like replacing [HOMEOTHERM;10067] with the same thing and the tag you want afterward. Notepad++ is supposed to have the same thing for entire folders but I haven't used it.

[Quietust]

The ORIENTATION tag is omitted by default, and in its absence the game uses the values [ORIENTATION:MALE:5:20:75] and [ORIENTATION:FEMALE:75:20:5] for the female caste, and the reverse for the male caste.

This means I'm going to have to go through all of the raws and add ORIENTATION tags to every creature so they'll breed properly. Sigh. Human rights are so obstructive.

Unless Quietust knows something I don't here (which, mind, is ridiculously likely), it seems to be only a 5% chance of not wanting to breed.

The bit you're missing is that animals will not breed unless they are both marked as "can marry opposite sex", which does not include the "allow romance but not commitment" case (which accounts for 20%).

[Skullsploder]

I know homosexuality has been observed in multiple species of animals, but, let's be honest, it's a very rare occurrence and mostly manifests in the form of males shagging everything in sight regardless of gender. It's a bit ridiculous to think that it would be impossible to get 25% of any given animal population to breed (which is what other threads have indicated to be the number - since animals will only breed in the ~75% "will marry opposite sex" category), especially when you've locked the male in a room with a female for months - have you seen what happens if a female dog's on heat in an animal shelter? Every male dog in the place goes mad. Every single male dog, even the snipped ones, tries to have a go if they get a chance, and, honestly, the female dog's sexual preferences aren't really considered

But yeah. It would seem that these elves sold you queer leopards.

[IronSI]

Let's see, 25% chance for each animal to not breed means that there is only a 56.25% chance that any breeding pair will produce young. Way, way to low unless you want to restrict population.

[Chipperbane]

I know homosexuality has been observed in multiple species of animals, but, let's be honest, it's a very rare occurrence and mostly manifests in the form of males shagging everything in sight regardless of gender. It's a bit ridiculous to think that it would be impossible to get 25% of any given animal population to breed (which is what other threads have indicated to be the number - since animals will only breed in the ~75% "will marry opposite sex" category), especially when you've locked the male in a room with a female for months - have you seen what happens if a female dog's on heat in an animal shelter? Every male dog in the place goes mad. Every single male dog, even the snipped ones, tries to have a go if they get a chance, and, honestly, the female dog's sexual preferences aren't really considered

But yeah. It would seem that these elves sold you queer leopards.

I think it's a rare occurrence because most animals run pretty heavily on instinct and evolutionary goals - it's the rare ones indeed that show any divergence from instinct. In animals like Chimpanzees, you actually see committed homosexual relationships. I think swans and some birds also showcase this. Then again, a lot of birds mate for life, sometimes with the same gender, and won't mate again if their mate dies. Very few animals display this kind of loyalty to their significant other.

I think trying to even consider sociosexual roles in animals is a lost cause - hell, we haven't even really figured out how animals think yet.

[Illogical_Blox]

Well, it can't be 1. I have approximately two leopards and three tigers.

It can't be 2, because I have approximately zero kittens.

As to 3, I'm simultaneously proud and irritated. Irritated that I have a breeding pair and they're not breeding. Proud because I'm gay and I think it's adorable.

Here's hoping the Elves bring something fun.

*Leopard skin rainbow flag unfurls and waves proudly, elves salute*

[Abadrausar]

Some Science over this has been already done, for those interested in knowing the new ratios of males and females to have for an adecuate chance of reproduction.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

In 40.xx  you need 3 males and 3 females of each creature type.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=142171.0

[Oblique]

to be fair, people also edit their raws to make dwarves not need to eat or drink and other such things

"Oh, now and then you will hear grown-ups say, 'Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the Leopard his spots?' I don't think even grown-ups would keep on saying such a silly thing if the Leopard and the Ethiopian hadn't done it once -- do you? But they will never do it again, Best Beloved. They are quite contented as they are." - Rudyard Kipling

(Hadn't read that in years until this thread made me think of it. I wonder if the bit about the Ethiopian is absent from recent editions...)

[Col_Jessep]

I have kind of a related question:
Can I breed animals for strength, like war dogs? When I have 20 and kill the weaker ones every year, will I get super war dogs eventually? =3

[Absentia]

I have kind of a related question:
Can I breed animals for strength, like war dogs? When I have 20 and kill the weaker ones every year, will I get super war dogs eventually? =3

Supposedly this does work, although I've never tried it for long enough to get a substantial result.


Re: gay animals -- The fact that DF doesn't allow for certain practices common in real-world animal breeding makes it a bigger problem than it really should be, so modding it out seems like a reasonable solution.