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Author Topic: Melee Combat  (Read 31057 times)

Arx

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Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #135 on: September 10, 2014, 11:46:10 am »

Could we make armor that would protect you from a direct hit by a lance wielded by a horseman riding at full speed? I imagine even if it didn't pierce the impact would still rupture multiple internal organs.

Probably not. The horseman would probably have a similar impact to a bullet, since he'd have a much higher mass even though he's moving more slowly. There's also the problem where it's entirely possible you'd be hurled backwards, depending on the weight of the warhorse and the skill of the lancer.
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #136 on: September 10, 2014, 11:47:18 am »

If I learned anything about lancers from M&B.. the best defense is a longer spear. Always have one on hand.
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Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #137 on: September 10, 2014, 01:28:49 pm »

Some armor vests are highly effective in protecting against knife attacks, like kevlar interwoven with synthetic fibers like aramid or nomex to offer some protection against stabbing and slashing. Prison guards get them, mostly.
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Sergarr

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Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #138 on: September 10, 2014, 01:30:55 pm »

If I learned anything about lancers from M&B.. the best defense is a longer spear. Always have one on hand.
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i2amroy

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Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #139 on: September 10, 2014, 03:48:19 pm »

Could we make armor that would protect you from a direct hit by a lance wielded by a horseman riding at full speed? I imagine even if it didn't pierce the impact would still rupture multiple internal organs.
It's called a armored vehicle. :P
Alternatively it could involve wrapping someone in like 10 ft of mattresses.

That said against an object that large and that slow hitting you you really only have three options of defense.
1) Form some sort of immovable wall in front of you, this is basically what a pike defense did, since you would brace the pikes against the ground to transfer the impact downwards instead of into the carrier.
2) Wrap whatever you want to defend in enough padding to dissipate the force. For most things this would require way too much padding to feasible.
3) Make something that rolls with the impact to dissipate it. If you were surrounded by a well-built rollcage then it doesn't matter how hard the horsemen hits you, since you would just go flying backwards until you ran out of force.

As you can see, really the only feasible option is the pike style option for a personal defense level.

Probably not. The horseman would probably have a similar impact to a bullet, since he'd have a much higher mass even though he's moving more slowly. There's also the problem where it's entirely possible you'd be hurled backwards, depending on the weight of the warhorse and the skill of the lancer.
Actually I think you'll find the charging horse has a lot more impact energy than a bullet, simply because it outweighs the bullet mass by such a huge amount. Making some general assumptions based of the data I could find for the 5.56x45mm NATO rounds and the average medieval warhorse + knight, even if the warhorse only successfully imparted 1/10th of it's energy on impact, your bullet would need to be traveling at Mach 600 (about 18x faster than Earth escape velocity) to match it in energy imparted (assuming the bullet hit the target and stopped dead), which is approximately 220x faster than their actual speed.
Spoiler: Math stuff (click to show/hide)
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Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #140 on: September 10, 2014, 04:16:25 pm »

If you get hit in the body by a lance meant for killing held by a guy on a charging horse you're dead, no question. :v
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 04:20:52 pm by GUNINANRUNIN »
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DJ

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Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #141 on: September 10, 2014, 05:13:58 pm »

Hm, has anyone ever tested how much force can a horse transfer to the lance impact? I imagine it can't be too much, else it'd stumble and fall.
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gigaraptor487

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Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #142 on: September 10, 2014, 05:55:27 pm »

I am interested in this, although it really relies on how long the horse has been galloping as

Fres = MA

Average Mass is around 450kg for a horse (may be different for war horses), so weight would be 4500N down.

Average speed at the gallop appears to be around 12 ms-1

I am going to see if I can calculate this later, but here is some info if people are interested
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Neonivek

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Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #143 on: September 11, 2014, 10:41:07 am »

The thing is, that it isn't an achievement to make armor capable of deflecting blows.

There is a reason why no one, even the military, goes around in class 5 body armor (because class 5 is basically a bear suit)
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Tiruin

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Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #144 on: September 11, 2014, 10:48:39 am »

The thing is, that it isn't an achievement to make armor capable of deflecting blows.

There is a reason why no one, even the military, goes around in class 5 body armor (because class 5 is basically a bear suit)

Please detail more :3
I am sure that many are interested in the concepts surrounding armor and how it interfaces with the physical limitations of the human and the battlefield.
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Sinistar

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Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #145 on: September 11, 2014, 11:07:11 am »

Bulletproof vests

Looks like current official scale for body armor goes up to 4 but I'm guessing Neonivek is referring to Troy Hurtubise and his inventions.
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Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #146 on: September 11, 2014, 11:13:52 am »

I read that as children future knights would have weights sewn into their clothes to get them used to carrying extra. Can't find the source at the moment and I haven't time to dig before work.

Full plate and full mail aren't that heavy. Pretty accurate reconstructions are worn routinely at larp events by peoples with no training. Fighting a whole day in IRL fight is a different matter entirely.
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Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #147 on: September 11, 2014, 11:46:52 am »

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Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #148 on: September 11, 2014, 11:51:33 am »

I imagine we'll be getting a news report in the coming months about how someone tried to use one of those for defense, and it either failed to stun the person they hit, or killed them.
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Arx

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Re: Melee Combat
« Reply #149 on: September 11, 2014, 11:52:38 am »

Well, the video is a year and a half old. It's not that new.
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