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Author Topic: Dwarves at war  (Read 3001 times)

StagnantSoul

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Re: Dwarves at war
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2014, 07:09:16 pm »

Make sure to make it so it's very unlikely for dwarves other than the worker to go there.
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Mimodo

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Re: Dwarves at war
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2014, 07:15:59 pm »

Or instead dig a 100x-level chute down, set up a minecart track next to the chute, and tell it to dump in the direction of the chute. All of the hematite stored in the cart will be dumped down the hole and ready to be used for your smelting and smithing needs.

And the Minecart? I've never used them yet. Also, hematite falling on smith head?

Also, the quickest way to get the forged armour to the surface?
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Dwarves at war
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2014, 07:18:38 pm »

I generally just use three-four dedicated haulers, carrying armor, weapons, and stone, with a burrow over the workshops desired to be taken from, the stockpile for ores, two-three mine layers which have your ore/flux stone, and a stockpile above ground for the armor and weapons.
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Urist McShire

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Re: Dwarves at war
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2014, 07:19:39 pm »

I've only started using minecarts on my current fortress. Once you get used to setting them up they're really handy to have. If you don't want a 100z-level chute, you could make your dwarves create a 100z-level winding track down and have them push it so that it goes down on its own and then guide it back up to the top when the cart reaches the bottom, but that involves manual dwarf labour.
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Mimodo

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Re: Dwarves at war
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2014, 09:34:14 pm »

Working on the chute now... That'll free up an extra guy. How do I set up the minecart?
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Mimodo

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Re: Dwarves at war
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2014, 09:42:08 pm »

Oh shit... who was that bastard that mentioned the deadly dust FB -_-
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Urist McShire

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Re: Dwarves at war
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2014, 12:40:01 am »

Working on the chute now... That'll free up an extra guy. How do I set up the minecart?

To set-up the track you are going to want one of two options. The first is to build the track (as a construction) and the second is to carve the track (into stone, through the designation menu). If you have a stone floor, carving the track is what you want.

I'm not sure how you're oriented, but let's assume that your track is running west-east with the chute at the east end.
S=hematite stockpile
-=track
X=track ends
O=chute

SSS
SSSX----------------XO
SSS

Once you have that completed, you're going to go 'b' 'C' and built Track Stops on either end of the track. These are going to require a dwarf with the mechanics labour enabled, but it will not require mechanisms, so don't worry about having to have any of those on hand. So your track will then look like this.

S=hematite stockpile
-=track
Q=Track Stop (construction)
O=chute

SSS
SSSQ----------------QO
SSS

When you're building the TS at the end point closest to the chute, you will see that there is a little bit of information in the sidebar while track stops are being placed. It will talk about friction and dumping, and by default friction will be at its highest point (stopping the minecart) and automatic dumping will be disabled, thus forcing a dwarf to come by and dump the minecart's contents himself. You don't want that, so hit the 'd' key until it says to automatically dump its contents on arrival to the east. This will then dump everything in the cart into the chute one square to the east of the track. The default settings can be left as is at the 'input' track stop.

Congratulations, you've built your first minecart track! However, it won't do anything yet besides sit there and look pretty. This is where the hauling menu 'h' comes into play. Create a new route, and then define stops on the route by pressing the 's' key first on your input track stop, and then on your output track stop. It'll give you yellow exclamation mark warnings at the start because the direction is incorrect. Highlight the stops and hit enter in order to edit them. You'll want to hit the 'd' key to change the direction you want the minecart to travel when it leaves that stop. So since the first order will say to 'Guide North immediately when full of items', you want to hit 'd' until it says 'East'. You can also hit 'p' to change it from guide mode to push mode. Guide mode has a dwarf pushing it from behind along each piece of track, while Push mode a dwarf comes along, gives it a shove, and the cart goes down the track until it reaches a track stop with high friction or hits something that makes it stop. You've now set the direction you want it to go when it's full, but the route doesn't know what it's supposed to be hauling. You then have to make a stockpile link so that it knows from which stockpile to take from. Press 's', then move your cursor to highlight your hematite stockpile, and hit 'p'. That makes the link. Then hit enter, and pick out hematite and/or any other ores or economic stones or whatnot that you want the minecart to take. Now hit escape to return to the main hauling menu, cycle down to stop 2 on your route, and hit enter to edit it. Hit 'x' three times to delete the conditions, then hit 'n' to add a new one. Change the direction to 'west', and you can either have the dwarf guide or push it.

Now your track is setup with all of its orders, but you still need a minecart for it all to happen. Go back to the main hauling menu and highlight your route. Press 'v' to assign a vehicle, scroll until you've got the minecart that you want (you'll need to have one built previously out of wood from a carpentry shop or metal from a forge), and hit enter to assign it. Your dwarves will the haul the vehicle to the input stop, and then start filling the cart up with the desired items from the input stockpile and sending it on its merry way. Bonus: you now have a quantum stockpile of hematite.

Make sure that there is an appropriately designated stockpile at the bottom of the chute, though, or else your dwarves will start hauling what just fell 100 z-levels back up to the input stockpile, loading them into the minecart, and sending them down the shaft again.
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Mimodo

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Re: Dwarves at war
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2014, 02:10:17 am »

Thanks heaps! Using minecarts 101 :D

I'm gonna assume that falling rocks is unsafe for the guy trying to grab them. Would it be unreasonable to place a retracting bridge in the chute somewhere so I can stop the falling
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Dwarves at war
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2014, 02:13:58 am »

I think that could work... That's pretty smart, actually. Stick it on a repeater.
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Mimodo

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Re: Dwarves at war
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2014, 02:47:34 am »

I think that could work... That's pretty smart, actually. Stick it on a repeater.

I was more thinking a pressure plate to close it when he walks into the chute (stop falling shit) and opens again when he walks out
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 02:49:54 am by Mimodo »
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Dwarves at war
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2014, 03:39:06 am »

Oh, I thought you meant in the middle of the chute, so you could have much less deadly falling stones.
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Mimodo

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Re: Dwarves at war
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2014, 04:06:42 am »

Oh, I thought you meant in the middle of the chute, so you could have much less deadly falling stones.

That would work too, but if I could reduce the deadliness entirely, that'd be even better
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gunpowdertea

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Re: Dwarves at war
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2014, 04:14:50 am »

The only problem is the 100 tick delay of bridges. I don't know, but how fast can an inverter be? Then you could hook up the pressure plate to an inverter and let that drive a hatch (no delay, I believe). An inverter could be super fast: A hatch with water on top that is dropped down onto a pressure plate triggering for 1-7 water (hook this up to the hatch to be driven) and then have a screw pump that pumps out the water from the room - or alternatively have a draining hatch that is triggered when the dorf walks out of the collection area (this _will_ lead to problems if more than one dorf is allowed into the collecting area!)
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moz

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Re: Dwarves at war
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2014, 09:27:03 am »

I vastly prefer bringing magma to the near-surface, and you don't need a track to do it. Each minecart can hold 2/7 depth of magma for a single tile, so a magma smelter requires 2 magma filled minecarts and a forge requires 4.  6 total.
Step by step:
1) Dig down to the magma ocean and setup a 6x1 magma flooding room. Use the old ramp and bridges trick (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/v0.34:Bridge#Ocean_drains) to safely pierce the magma and provide you an on/off switch for the flood. Add a large cistern for the magma to drain, also controlled by a lever bridge.
2) Construct 6 magma safe minecarts with ore and coal/wood topside. Nethercap doesn't work for this purpose (tried it!)
3) Designate a stockpile that only accepts magma safe minecarts in your flooding room. Wait till room is filled with your 6 minecarts.
4) Seal the flooding room and hit the switch to fill it. When all carts are in 7/7 magma, hit the switch to close the flood and the switch to open the cistern for draining.
5) While magma is drying up in your flood room with the now filled carts, dig your rooms for smelter/forge wherever you want them, and channel the holes for magma to be dumped into.
6) Construct 2 track stops next to each channeled hole with dumping direction into the hole.
7) Create a route for each track stop and designate the vehicle to be one of your magma filled carts. Remove all departure conditions from the stop.
8) Dwarves will haul the magma filled carts up your 150z stairway, place them on the track stop, which then dumps 2z of magma into the channeled spot.
9) Remove routes, dwarves will carry minecarts away.
10) Remove track stops, build smelter/forge.

Bonus: Dwarves will bring the minecarts back to the flooding room, allowing you to repeat steps 4-10 as many times as you feel you need. I usually only ever use one of each, since they are so efficient if placed near your fortress.
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Pirate Bob

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Re: Dwarves at war
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2014, 09:59:37 am »

Thanks heaps! Using minecarts 101 :D

I'm gonna assume that falling rocks is unsafe for the guy trying to grab them. Would it be unreasonable to place a retracting bridge in the chute somewhere so I can stop the falling
Yes, you definitely want to figure out some way to protect from falling rocks.  I had one of my skilled smiths get killed from a similar chute system once.

What you could do if you want to be 100% safe is place a hatch (or retracting bridge) in the chute linked to a lever, and then a lockable door restricting access to the bottom of the chute.  Keep the hatch closed most of the time, and only open it when you have blocked access to the bottom by locking the door.  This requires a somewhat annoying level of micromanagement, but definitely works (this is what I implemented after the aforementioned accident, and there were no more accidents).

If you can figure out the timing, it should be possible to automate the hatch opening as you suggested, but any time I try to automate anything with dwarves it results in !FUN!, as there are so many different ways it can get screwed up (say two dwarves decide to go in one after the other, or a child decides the bottom of the chute is a fun place to play...).  Honestly, if you want a safe, automatic way to transport items, minecarts may be the way to go.  If you don't mind using a little dwarf labor you can just have them guide the cart down, and then it's 100% safe* and easy to constuct - just make sure you read carefully how to designate minecart tracks on ramps.

*nothing is ever 100% safe in dwarf fortress, but this is pretty safe.
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