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Author Topic: *sigh* Not sure what to do with my DF computer -- replace it?  (Read 1271 times)

Sutremaine

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*sigh* Not sure what to do with my DF computer -- replace it?
« on: September 02, 2014, 08:22:09 am »

It went something like this:

1. Buy new CPU for computer, checking compatibility (T9900 replacing a P7450).
2. Use new CPU for a few weeks, enjoying increased framerate.
3. Computer suddenly dies, won't do anything at power-up but spin the fan. Problem tentatively identified as motherboard, due to old CPU not working either.
4. New motherboard purchased, installed with old CPU.
5. Back up data.
6. Install new CPU.
7. Computer won't do anything at power-up but spin the fan.
8. Install old CPU. Computer continues to spin fan and do nothing.

So now I'm sitting here feeling rather disheartened. I'm right back where I started, except I'm out the cost of the parts.

Should I carry on trying to sort it out, or start looking at building a dedicated DF tower?
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Skullsploder

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Re: *sigh* Not sure what to do with my DF computer -- replace it?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2014, 09:10:11 am »

Build a dedicated DF computer. It is my dream, but, sadly, not that of my wallet.
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Scruffy

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Re: *sigh* Not sure what to do with my DF computer -- replace it?
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2014, 09:17:03 am »

Have you tried using another PSU?
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Sutremaine

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Re: *sigh* Not sure what to do with my DF computer -- replace it?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2014, 09:32:56 am »

I don't have another PSU. What problem do you believe would be solved by that?

I don't think a dedicated DF tower would be that expensive to a general purpose tower. I'm not going for the best CPU and the best RAM, but spending more money on those at the expense of the graphics card and parts of the hard drive.
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I am trying to make chickens lay bees as eggs. So far it only produces a single "Tame Small Creature" when a hen lays bees.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

bluephoenix

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Re: *sigh* Not sure what to do with my DF computer -- replace it?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2014, 09:39:58 am »

Just checking, you put thermal paste on the CPU when you put it in right?
There are a number of things that could be wrong, dust, so try to blow it out/clean it.
Loose connection, try disconnecting parts and cables and putting them back in.
Faulty power supply or graphics card.

Are there any beeping noises when you turn the computer on?
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Teldin

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Re: *sigh* Not sure what to do with my DF computer -- replace it?
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2014, 10:23:45 am »

I've seen this a lot and 99% of the time, it's the power supply. Find/borrow a replacement and check, even a shitty one will do. Also replace the power cables if your motherboard allows it.
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eccentric

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Re: *sigh* Not sure what to do with my DF computer -- replace it?
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2014, 10:26:32 am »

As mentioned I'd be looking at the PSU. Cap might have burst on a 5v rail and the 12v rail still powers up and runs the fans. Some PSU won't kick on full power without a sensing a load but often they will still power up (enough to run fans anyway).

Ask any geeky friends or the guys/gals in IT (assuming you work at a place with IT) if they have an old (known working) PSU that you could try.
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Kerbalrocketry

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Re: *sigh* Not sure what to do with my DF computer -- replace it?
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2014, 11:28:47 am »

I personally avoid replacing CPU opting to instead build a new PC and possibly carry some parts over, it's rare to be able to get a significant upgrade that is compatible with your Motherboard.
Given it worked for a few weeks everything must of been working, problems caused when installing the Processor seem unlikely.

Can you get to the BIOS? Check your Motherboards manual, (or find it online), to see how.


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Sutremaine

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Re: *sigh* Not sure what to do with my DF computer -- replace it?
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2014, 03:05:46 pm »

Thermal paste yes, dusting yes (did that upon initial upgrade).

It's currently booting, and I'm not sure why. I'm not sure if being bothered by this is strange or not.

1. Put in one RAM stick, switch computer on.
2. Computer complains about lack of OS.
3. Switch computer off. Switch computer on.
4. Four beeps (RAM read/write failure).
5. Take RAM out, put RAM in as it was, slot in hard drive, it boots.

As for the power supply, I could probably pick up a new adapter fairly cheap. The current one is about four years old, and the computer is currently depowering abruptly for no apparent reason (the first case of this was the first sign of the problems I'm having now). Got Speedfan running at the moment, and it's reporting temperatures of under 40C.
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I am trying to make chickens lay bees as eggs. So far it only produces a single "Tame Small Creature" when a hen lays bees.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

Dirst

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Re: *sigh* Not sure what to do with my DF computer -- replace it?
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2014, 04:18:45 pm »

Thermal paste yes, dusting yes (did that upon initial upgrade).

It's currently booting, and I'm not sure why. I'm not sure if being bothered by this is strange or not.

1. Put in one RAM stick, switch computer on.
2. Computer complains about lack of OS.
3. Switch computer off. Switch computer on.
4. Four beeps (RAM read/write failure).
5. Take RAM out, put RAM in as it was, slot in hard drive, it boots.

As for the power supply, I could probably pick up a new adapter fairly cheap. The current one is about four years old, and the computer is currently depowering abruptly for no apparent reason (the first case of this was the first sign of the problems I'm having now). Got Speedfan running at the moment, and it's reporting temperatures of under 40C.

Of course it's hard to be sure from way over here, but it sounds like a flaky power supply.  My recommendation would be to try a different power supply, and if that works then replace the one you have.

However, if you insist on risking a house-fire, you can sometimes shorten the power supply's dizzy spells.  The power supply has a fuse to prevent an over-current situation and a crowbar circuit to prevent an over-voltage situation.  Fuses are pretty obvious.  If the PS crowbars, it can refuse to power up for a while, then seem to be fine.  You can reset a crowbar by shorting all three outlet prongs to the same piece of metal (preferably one that is grounded), and it will function normally until the next time it crowbars.

A crowbar is supposed to prevent a spike in your wall voltage from frying the computer, but the circuit doesn't know if the spike came from the wall or if it's actually one of the regulators inside the PS that's getting flaky.  Unless you have reason to believe that your wall voltage is spiky (like a UPS that's getting old), assume it's a regulator getting flaky and get rid of the thing.  The three-prong trick can help you get data off of the machine in a pinch, but it is not a permanent solution.
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enizer

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Re: *sigh* Not sure what to do with my DF computer -- replace it?
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2014, 04:46:06 pm »

I don't have another PSU. What problem do you believe would be solved by that?

I don't think a dedicated DF tower would be that expensive to a general purpose tower. I'm not going for the best CPU and the best RAM, but spending more money on those at the expense of the graphics card and parts of the hard drive.

I ran into something strange about a year ago with dwarf fortress and hardware, when I bought used parts on Ebay, and put together a cheap system based on the A10-5800K CPU, and 8gb of ddr3 2133 RAM.
Then I found out that in the case of Dwarf Fortress, this got just over double the FPS of my main gaming tower, which was based on the 1100T CPU, and 8gb of ddr2 800 ram.
The 1100T system left the A10 in the dust for most other games, but in Dwarf Fortress, the A10 was king.
As is obvious, Dwarf Fortress didn't care at all about the fancy video cards in my main tower,
the CPUs have very similar single core performance, which left just one variable, the memory.
After some testing, I noticed that the advantage went away when I put slower RAM in the A10.
So I'm going to have to say that when/if you are building a system specifically for Dwarf Fortress, be very careful on saving on RAM.

What one should mostly focus on if building a computer just for dwarf fortress, is single thread performance on the CPU, and RAM speed.
Everything else is secondary.

And of course make sure the CPU properly supports the RAM:
The 1100T with ddr3 2133 didn't make any miracles, and instead, refused to run it at speeds over 1600(and even that speed is NOT officially supported)

On those CPUs you changed out.. is that a laptop you are tweaking?
that would explain the difficulty in testing other parts, like a different PSU,
as well as the crash, while the difference in power draw(25w vs 35w) is tiny for a desktop, for a laptop, that could increase heat in the system, and cause secondary problems that way.
In the case that this CPU is officially supported, that should be fine though.
And I would guess the system booted again BECAUSE you messed with the RAM,
a lot of laptops I have messed with reset their CMOS if you change the RAM.
I wouldn't count on that way to reset CMOS, but its the best explanation I can think of :)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 04:48:24 pm by enizer »
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