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Plan A

2 (15.4%)

Plan B 1.0

2 (15.4%)

Plan B 2.0

9 (69.2%)

Total Members Voted: 13

[Chaine Maile]

My latest project is to weaponize the throwing of burning lignite boulders. I have two theories about how to proceed.

"Plan A" is the simpler of the two, but depending on minecart/magma interactions may not work. The idea is to load an iron minecart with five lignite boulders. On firing, the minecart passes through 7/7 magma trench and back onto the normal impulse tracks. I have no idea if this will light the lignite in the full minecart. Considering that dwarves riding a minecart filled with magma are safe... I doubt this will work at all.

"Plan B" involves exposing the flying boulders to magma after they leave the minecart. I can think of several ways to do this. First, pumping constant magma into the impulse rail and letting it flow out the fortifications at the muzzle into a capture trench in front of the muzzle. From there the magma can be pumped away and recycled in a fairly closed system. This assumes that a boulder sharing space with magma on a fortification tile will ignite.

A variation of "Plan B" involves a pump pressurized set of fortifications the boulders fly through a short distance in front of the muzzle. Picture pumps north and south pumping toward center, and fortifications open east and west. Pumps keep center at 7/7 magma, and the magma flows out of fortifications east and west into recycling trenches. Boulder flies through fortifications from east to west, contacting magma on the way if the fortifications don't deflect it.

Thoughts?

[Bumber]

What about setting them on fire first, then having them loaded into the cart by dwarves with protective gear?

I don't suspect projectiles can be ignited mid-flight.

[Urist McVoyager]

Retracting bridges and dump zones are friends here. Use a bridge to hold them, splash that room with magma and then drop the rocks into the cart.

[Tacomagic]

Retracting bridges and dump zones are friends here. Use a bridge to hold them, splash that room with magma and then drop the rocks into the cart.

...

Can you actually drop stuff into carts!?

If that's true, then I've been playing like a chump all this time!

[Urist McVoyager]

I don't know, but it makes sense. It needs Science.

[Tacomagic]

I don't know, but it makes sense. It needs Science.

Well, if it turns out you can drop things into minecarts, you may as well skip the boulders and go right for loading in a lignite fusion bin.

Just, you know, make sure you only fire it at something you want to burn for a while.

[Chaine Maile]

First attempt failed tonight. None of my embark civilizations seemed to have either kind of coal boulder, so I drug along a bunch of coke and iron to a volcano.

I built a simple self resetting linear accelerator, fired by a dwarf push. Empty test run showed gun functioning. Filled cart half full of coke. It shotgunned the coke perfectly and reset. So I mined the last diagonal tile needed to fill the sump with Magma. Minecart filled with coke entered three tiles of 7/7 magma before continuing onward. It passed through the magma at about one tile per tick. It did not skip over the magma, as I watched tick by tick and saw it on each of the three magma tiles.

Coke was not ignited, and shotgunned the target zone just like in the test run. I began to wonder if maybe coke wouldn't light with magma. So I let the cannon fire a second cycle empty. I figured this would pass the empty minecart under the magma, fill it with magma, throw the magma into the trench filled with coke, and ignite it. No such luck.

The mine cart passed through all three tiles of the magma sump without filling. No magma entered the minecart, and no gob of magma was thrown.

Maybe a longer dwell time is needed? If so, a longer sump trench might work. Maybe the mine cart needs to pass through slower? If so, removing a couple impulse ramps might allow it to fill with magma / ignite contents. So far "Plan A" is a bust.

As for throwing "Lignite Fusion Bins", my understanding is on impact with ground or wall will cause a bin/cage/container to spill its contents like a grenade. Aka, a cage with 100 cats would fly straight, impact, and scatter cats with forward momentum. If that is so, the lignite bin would separate from each other.

[Larix]

First attempt failed tonight. None of my embark civilizations seemed to have either kind of coal boulder, so I drug along a bunch of coke and iron to a volcano.

I built a simple self resetting linear accelerator, fired by a dwarf push. Empty test run showed gun functioning. Filled cart half full of coke. It shotgunned the coke perfectly and reset. So I mined the last diagonal tile needed to fill the sump with Magma. Minecart filled with coke entered three tiles of 7/7 magma before continuing onward. It passed through the magma at about one tile per tick. It did not skip over the magma, as I watched tick by tick and saw it on each of the three magma tiles.

Coke was not ignited, and shotgunned the target zone just like in the test run. I began to wonder if maybe coke wouldn't light with magma. So I let the cannon fire a second cycle empty. I figured this would pass the empty minecart under the magma, fill it with magma, throw the magma into the trench filled with coke, and ignite it. No such luck.

The mine cart passed through all three tiles of the magma sump without filling. No magma entered the minecart, and no gob of magma was thrown.

Maybe a longer dwell time is needed? If so, a longer sump trench might work. Maybe the mine cart needs to pass through slower? If so, removing a couple impulse ramps might allow it to fill with magma / ignite contents. So far "Plan A" is a bust.

I fiddled with this kind of stuff in .34.11 and found that the requirement for picking up magma/water was not time spent but rather movement speed - carts moving at up to 40 000 (high-speed roller) would reliably pick up water, those moving at 50 000 or more (highest-speed roller) wouldn't. Problem with magma is that at 40 000 speed, friction in magma will stop a cart on a single tile, so you need a trickier construction to make it work.

And if you get a cart to pick up magma, you can always just use that as projectile. It may no longer pummel creatures like it did in previous versions (haven't tried yet, but liquids are reportedly no longer valid projectiles), but it's still pretty good at setting things on fire and interdicting passage.

[Chaine Maile]

If that is the case, I'll remove some impulse ramps tonight. Looks like this may require a water reactor for power after all. I'll test ignition of combustibles in a mine cart after I confirm speed is correct for magma exposure.

I'm not doing this because it's easy. Water and magma cannons are pretty easy. Simply fill the return rail with liquid instead of the firing rail.

Hmmm... that makes me wonder. Perhaps I should dump loaded minecarts into the muzzle's open space from a z-level or two above? The space I am talking about is the drop location next to the stationary bumper minecart at the muzzle. A falling cart enters that area quite slowly, allowing liquid exposure, and then would send itself back to the chamber for firing.

Downside is a burning minecart in the chamber would require a roller for firing, unless I want to kill dwarves.

[Larix]

I was a bit curious, so went and built my basic 45-step water cannon. The basic trick for filling still works and the cycle time's the same, so i assume the mechanics haven't changed. A water "boulder" also definitely hurled the two test cats ~20 tiles. The actual collisions looked like they were "soft" now, but skipping on the floor still can do harm. I don't have any magma nearby, so can't comment on that. Yet.

One neat trick is that a one-tile loading pond containing a track ramp is mistaken for a flat tile by minecart physics, so can be passed without particular efforts to get the cart "up" the ramp (which can easily become a nuisance). All it takes is sufficient - but not excessive - speed or a moderate push, e.g. by a roller on the ramp or a following minecart.

Dropping a minecart into the drink from above works very nicely in my experience - it seems to pretty much guarantee taking up liquid, because the cart's basically standing still when it lands. Carts take a bit over 20 steps to drop a single level, which is of little concern when you're working with individually hand-loaded carts and don't aim for maximum cadence.

[Chaine Maile]

Spent some time working up some schematics of what failed. I'll post the blueprint tonight. If I have some time I'll draw ones for proposed future attempts too. Its still faster to draw them then build them.

I'm not really concerned much with maximum cadence. Safe operation is athe larger concern. Since it will require manually filled miencarts, even set to automatic with a feed magazine it will run dry pretty quick. Fortunately burning boulders are a long term weapon, with points for style. A few thrown about a three tile hallway should be fairly effect against enemies who are not fireproof.

One idea for repeating is to simply have a 3x3 set of minecart stops around a mass dump shoot. Hole would open onto an active roller. The first eight carts should then fire as fast as they can be mass dumped.

[Chaine Maile]

Below is the first attempt at "Plan A". So far, failure has been pinpointed to the minecart moving to fast through the magma. I'm going to either relocate the magma, or slow the minecart and try again.

[Chaine Maile]

Here is what I am thinking of trying next. I'll probably use a longer magma channel to allow for impulse ramps under the magma. Failing that, I'll need a magma proof powered roller or two.

[Chaine Maile]

Tonight I spent most my time stabilizing the fortress for more testing. I did manage to drop 7 units of magma onto a full minecart. The coke WILL burn while inside the minecart. Looks like I just need to get the speed correct on moving carts.

[superbob]

Unfortunately, according to the wiki, stuff does not fall into a minecart when dropped from above. I wish it worked, there's just so many wonderful uses for that kind of mechanic... Like a quantum stockpile inside a minecart, capable of unleashing a whole mountain's worth of stone on impact