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[Rekov]

I like the idea of a deep/hill/mountain dwarf split.  Hill dwarves could be denied magma forges, and the discussion of deep dwarves in the other thread sounded like great fun...  If you wanted to include vanilla-like dwarves in your recommended settings I would suggest making them the mountain dwarves, but I think it would be even cooler if you themed the mountain dwarves uniquely and had a 4th and 5th option for vanilla-like and full masterwork dwarves, respectively.

There is such a thing as too much content, and I think that was part of the point that Meph was getting at with this roadmap. Masterwork already has 16 civilized races, and while some of them will never be playable, that already gives players a huge amount of choice. I think it is far more important to have both playable dwarves, playable kobolds, and playable elves than to have three different nuances of the same basic race. It's better to give most of the community something close to what they want than to give a small part of the community exactly what they want, in my opinion.

[moseythepirate]

I would prefer for Dwarves to keep the features they have for the most part (I will admit that as much as I love the shops, they are happier with humans), but I concur with the idea to make the dwarf special workshops upgrade to new buildings.

Also, there are some buildings that could be consolidated, such as the Greatforge, Armory, and Weaponry. Do those really need to be three buildings? How about the Crucible and the Metallurgist?

That said, I am definitely a veteran. I was one of the very first Masterwork users waaay back in the day, so I have been able to keep up with the updates. I appreciate that the newcomers could be a bit overwhelmed, especially if they aren't Vanilla Veterans. I feel that there should be prominent GUI options for the dwarves to be EITHER Beginner or Advanced, depending on preference. Having both races be active at the same time would lead to problems for the beginners, I feel.

Also, on a personal note, could you bring Magmalings back? Magma Traps are fine as, well, traps, but trying to fill a reservoir with them to keep my forges hot is astonishingly dangerous. Like, the magma phases through walls and floods my fortress. Just another day at the glorious Mountainhome of  Knifeballs, I suppose.

[daisha]

There is such a thing as too much content, and I think that was part of the point that Meph was getting at with this roadmap. Masterwork already has 16 civilized races, and while some of them will never be playable, that already gives players a huge amount of choice. I think it is far more important to have both playable dwarves, playable kobolds, and playable elves than to have three different nuances of the same basic race. It's better to give most of the community something close to what they want than to give a small part of the community exactly what they want, in my opinion.

I'm certainly sensitive to that, but the masterwork dwarves already exist, and are sort of overpowered (if you can wield them effectively), and the vanilla-like dwarves will also have to exist (for the vanillalike profile/accelerated DF builds), and are kind of underpowered, so at least a third dwarf type will be necessary according to Meph's roadmap.  Work is already being done on the deep dwarves and Meph may not have to do anything but include it.  So really he could just be splitting the masterwork dwarves into the deep/hill variety, which could turn out to be easier in a way than making a single non-vanilla/non-fullMW dwarf race depending on how many hard choices he'd have to make about what to cut for the more-than-vanilla-but-not-kitchen-sink-MW dwarves.

[Fairin]

just don't be like hollywood and appeal to the lowest common denominator and ruin what could be a true masterpiece Meph.

i'd say rewrite the dwarves completely (as i told you before damnit) =) make your own buildings so you can turn them on or off and not effect the overall of the race. "don't want slag? turn off the slag pit!" example.

the lowest setting for them could be as close to vanilla as you can get for accelerated fans

the highest setting should make gnomes balk at the complexity. and therefore, options. for veterans to aspire too

[Meph]

Once I start with this, the first thing I will do is turn everything off in the GUI and start the mod. I dont even know whats left at this stage, since I always test with default settings. ^^

[sisso]

Update to latest vanilla update... Toady is still releasing version every week or so, and dfhack has no official, stable release, and force event and spawnunit are missing so far. I cant do it yet.

For sure. It is a blocked one priority hehe. But could solve my problem of trying to play DF 40 and masterwork in a few spare time. I think that I need some focus

[kizucha]

Because i love warlock's i would be more happy about a warlock update.

The GUI and the rebuilding dwarf mode, for me it needs no really improvements but i agree for new-MDF-players it will be a nice thing.

The water-based naga race looks interessting, very interessting for me but i think this will be one of the things that needs the most work so i dont know if i want this on place 1. The same is the insect race.

The different water darkness, it looks nicer yep. Do it first if its not much work but make it optional, because not everyone will like it.^^

And the nice update for 40.x ... do yourself a favor, i think it will take more time till toady is happy and the other mods/plugins/whatnototherthings are ready. If you work now on the update for 40.x i think we dont get any other updates from you in the time and i fear this will be lot more time than we can survive without you.

And at the end... i waaaaaaaant more warlock stuff.

And at the second more important end, do RL stuff first and after that MDF stuff.

[Blightedmarsh]

As far as I can see the five things dwarves should be good at are:

1) Smithing
2) Masonry/mining
3) Combat
4) Traps
5) MAGMA

Everything else is ancillary to this. I'd drop or scale back on poisons, alchemy, religion, trade and magic for dwarves and place more emphasis on the primary aspects.  So dwarves don't use spells or pets to call down fire on their enemies. No they use engineering and sheer bloody determination to drown them in MAGMA.

Now as to the buildings I like the building upgrade system we have in the kobalds and the humans. Convertible workshops if you please.

[Meph]

1) Smithing
2) Masonry/mining
3) Combat
4) Traps
5) MAGMA

I would like to add:

6) Constructs/Machines (Landmines, Turrets. They are a MDF basis, included since the first release)
7) Metalworks (better materials, wolfram, mithril, volcanic, adamantine, that other races might not have)
8 ) Golems (high end tech)
9) Runes (Giving special abilities to armor/weapons, instead of high-magic itself)

[slay_mithos]

Underground crop kings too, even in vanilla.

I have to say +1 to upgrade-able buildings, as it gives a clear idea of progression, and removes the long list in the b-w and b-e menus.

[Rekov]

How about giving Dwarves a special affinity for brewing? 'Special' alcohols that treat syndromes or give other minor benefits.

[daisha]

1) Smithing
2) Masonry/mining
3) Combat
4) Traps
5) MAGMA

I would like to add:

6) Constructs/Machines (Landmines, Turrets. They are a MDF basis, included since the first release)
7) Metalworks (better materials, wolfram, mithril, volcanic, adamantine, that other races might not have)
8 ) Golems (high end tech)
9) Runes (Giving special abilities to armor/weapons, instead of high-magic itself)

The only thing I find at all objectionable in this is golems, just because the gnomes seem like the more obvious candidate for golem-building.

Is there any way to restrict rune-inscribing to dwarves of a particular caste?  It's a little odd for Urist McMilker to be able to lay powerful enchantments on a weapon simply because he entered the proper workshop.  Maybe it could be a priestly function.

[LMeire]

I can see dwarves as having the best alcohol, considering they're biologically dependent on it and thus stand to benefit the most from brewing technology. Maybe give them a "hyperdistillery" or whatever that takes a lot more plants but pumps out a barrel of the hardest, highest-quality drinks the maniacs could imagine.

[daisha]

dwarven ethanol enema [5]

[IndigoFenix]

1) Smithing
2) Masonry/mining
3) Combat
4) Traps
5) MAGMA

I would like to add:

6) Constructs/Machines (Landmines, Turrets. They are a MDF basis, included since the first release)
7) Metalworks (better materials, wolfram, mithril, volcanic, adamantine, that other races might not have)
8 ) Golems (high end tech)
9) Runes (Giving special abilities to armor/weapons, instead of high-magic itself)

The only thing I find at all objectionable in this is golems, just because the gnomes seem like the more obvious candidate for golem-building.

Is there any way to restrict rune-inscribing to dwarves of a particular caste?  It's a little odd for Urist McMilker to be able to lay powerful enchantments on a weapon simply because he entered the proper workshop.  Maybe it could be a priestly function.

Actually, dwarves using heavy artificial war engines is fairly common in modern fantasy.  Gnomes are more known for small, complex inventions of dubious practicality.  I say keep the golems, but make them expensive/high level.

I also would like to add Armok-worship to the list, and expand on it somewhat.  Humans can have a variable pantheon with a number of possible effects, while dwarves have a more constant form of worship focused on conflict and battle, which could also be the source for the rune-enhanced weapons and armor.  No flashy magic, but perhaps something to enhance combat skills.  Like enchanted armor that removes fear and pain, or a bloody axe that grants buffs but also has a chance of driving the wielder berserk.

As for magma... that's a little tricky.  Dwarves should definitely do something with magma, but being able to spawn it anywhere using magma traps is perhaps a little bit too magic-like.  Maybe copying the gnome's drill is in order?