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[Meph]

Hey guys, I am back from Ireland, and ready to do stuff. And things. First of all a quick question, because I just installed photoshop and had an idea for water: Does this look alright to you?



The lighter the water the shallower, the darker the water the deeper it is. Same applies to magma. Brooks look just like before, a happy cyan.



I can only do this by replacing the 1-7, so you checking if water it 3 (passable) or 4 (unpassable) gets a bit more tricky, but I think it looks nicer. It would be one of the things that TwbT allows me to do.

Now back to topic, here my thoughts for the next months.

• Massive additions to the GUI - individual options for each playable race, plenty of preset profiles, more options to bring the mod closer to vanilla, more options to remove mod content.
• Bugfixes for all races, but no new features for a while.
• A rebuild of dwarf mode from scratch. Wait what, why?
• DF 40.x conversion

A few quick words about everything: GUI I planned for a while, but what tipped the balance was a thread I opened in the general DF section. I let it run its course for 2 weeks and found out that there are two things the deter new players: The large difference between MDF and vanilla DF, and the seemingly aimless additions of features to Dwarf Mode. So I want to improve the GUI to bring the mod closer to vanilla, and include profiles that set the mod to "as close to vanilla as it gets", to "add 20% mod content", "add 40% mod content" and so on. A few presets, because I came to realize that the GUI itself can be overwhelming. If you use it the first time, it will take you an hour to read the tooltips alone. ^^

Bugfixes I always do, but usually I add more features, which also introduce new bugs. That slowed down a bit since I focussed on new races, because human and hermit content certainly doesnt introduce bugs into Dwarf Mode (or other races), but I think it would be good to follow Toadys lead and do a couple of clean up releases. I still havent found the source of these occasional crashes you get right at embark. (suspect dfhack, but dont know which script, so my hope is that it fixes itself when I upgrade to the next dfhack version)

Rebuild Dwarf Mode. That probably comes as a surprise to you. It came as a surprise to me as well, so thats fine. Again, the thread I opened to let new players and non-players speak showed me that one thing happens quite often: A new player downloads the mod, starts it with default settings, starts a Dwarf Mode fort, and gets super overwhelmed by ~100 new workshops. Now in my infinite wisdom I designed Humans to be an easy starter race, with introductions of all other races, but forgot that new players wouldnt play humans, they would play dwarves, after all its Dwarf Fortress. And then stop playing the mod, because Dwarf Mode is a giant clusterfuck. You have to remember that Masterwork is my first mod, and that I always tested new and crazy features in Dwarf Mode, because other races didnt exist back then. In the later stages, I have these super clear goals, todo lists, tight concepts of game mechanics for races (just look at how streamlined Warlocks and Humans are to their concepts), but I forgot to do this for the most important race of all: Dwarves. The problem was that I always made polls here in the MDF board, and the more active players voted. The more active players already know the mod features, so they request more mod features, which leads to a even greater clusterfuck in dwarf mode, which leads to even more new players that are scarred for live.

My solution to this is to change dwarves. I havent fully decided yet if I make 2 civs, a "vanilla dwarf civ" with only a few additions, and a "masterwork dwarf civ", or if I make "deep/hill/mountain/whatever dwarves", and split their features into quarters, or if I make a new concept for Dwarf Mode (like I did with Warlocks and Humans) and rebuild it from there... probably super mining/machine/forging/smelting focussed. The end result will be the same: A smaller dwarf mode. (Dont worry hardcore MDF fans, I can potentially leave everything that currently exists as an option, which is disabled by default.) My goal is to at least cut the workshop count down to 50%, possibly by using the upgrade building script for them as well, in a smaller extend.

And of course the 40.x conversion. I am honestly a bit scared of it. The raws are fine, its a ton of work, but easy, repetetive work, no problem here. And most utilities seem to be updated by now, and I even have the string dump for my patched exe ready. But dfhack is causing me trouble, as do at least half of the tilesets, which are not updated for 40.x. I will probably need help with dfhack, especially considering that "force event" might not work anymore at all. Thats the script that calls migrants, caravans and sieges, losing this functionality will kill many mod features.

I know I made a poll about the next projects, which included... none of the above. Leading topics are

More cleanup.- 165
More balancing.- 157
More new features in general.- 160
More dwarf content.- 122
Insects as playable race. (biomass and time related upgrades)- 104

You will get the cleanup, new features and "more dwarf content" with the Dwarf Mode remake. It certainly will have new features, but probably loses many old ones, to make dwarf mode an easier entry for new players. Balancing is included in all the bugfixes, its something I always do.   I havent made a plan yet, but I want to invite everyone to post suggestions. I will make a new thread for it shortly.

And I saw that water-based naga race idea, and somehow I feel a strange mood starting up again... I love that idea. Its challenging from the perspective of a modder (because no one has done something like this before, and the AI is so stupid around pathing and water) and its brand new for players to figure out nice ways to set up a water-based fort. Wasnt on the poll because the idea didnt exist then, but Eko did some solid creative thinking.

That being said, I also have lots of non-df stuff to do. I have roughly 3 months to plan, finance and equip my next tour, which will probably lead me from Germany through Siberia to China/Japan. In winter. I have to make some new blog stuff, updates for the website, pictures, sponsoring emails, and all that planning stuff with climate, gear, route, visas, etc. Test gear too, luckily we have a sorta public ice-chamber with thermocam and wind-generator in Cologne. So dont be surprised if I disappear once in a while for a while, I'll train being an icycle

PS: I'd love to throw out all the updates instantly, including waterbased Naga and a Warlock update I have been talking about all the time, and new dwarf mode and biomass insect swarm, but I only have 24h a day. ^^

[slay_mithos]

Dwarves had it coming, they seem more like a testing ground for everything than a proper themed race right now.

I mean, they have access, among other things, to poisons, fish farming, magic, praying, traps, farming, reviving megabeasts or the best armours.

It is fun to have basically everything when you know how to use it, but it doesn't feel like a proper race per say.
To be fair, it's also because MDF was only dwarves for quite a long time, and features came one on top of an other, for our pleasure.


My two cents on how to do the dwarves: Make the new features come in progressively.
If it's clear as for what workshop is an upgrade to an other, it might not be as confusing for the new players.
The research system was pretty good at showing what buildings were "advanced", so you might be able to make a similar system with maybe one or two more tiers.
With the labels in the buildings to explain the tiers and keeping things clear, it might make it easier to get into the mod progressively.

I'm not the one having to make it happen though, so it's always easier to say "just do this", but I really feel like this 'invention' system is a good approach (and better than the old blueprints).

I don't know if making the dwarves two civs is a good approach (more civs is not always better), but if that's the only way to not loose too many "new" players...
Maybe have a launcher preset that disable a lot of "new" features for the newer player to get used to the mod might also be a way to do things.


Anyway, good luck with all that. You always make this mod better with every release, for years now, so I think we can trust you not to just make a boring race just to please vanilla players.


EDIT:
I was casually reading on DFHack 40.x, and I found a few things that might interest you quite a bit.

There are new ways to target the worker (for transformation scripts) that don't rely on inhaling vapors, and other similar tricks. Not sure if it will be of use, but might help.

There seem to be a way to clear vanilla jobs entries from a workshop. Again, not sure if usefull, as I can't seem to find a way to remove the building themselves.

More importantly, you can add reactions to a building via scripts (meaning it can be done on the fly)

Code: [Select]

addReactionToShop(reaction_name,shop_name)

Add a custom reaction to the building
Those things can be found in the lua documentation

[Meph]

He, if people will find the new dwarves boring/too easy, I just point them in the Gnomes direction. Nothing more complex than automated factory lines and timetravel.

But good to see that a long-time player agrees.

[sisso]

I think update for latest vanilla version and bug fix always a priority.

I started to play masterwork for its complexity. Yes you are overwhelmed by content, but is it is not the problem, you already overcome this amount of content when learn to play the vanilla version. It is a revival of the first and good times:P

Improves are always welcome. But I am already consider the GUI as a bonus feature.

If you think that Dwarf need a remake, you are probably right. But like @slay_mithos, it is still nice to have a "testing ground"/do everything race. Some people like me are very indecisive and keeping restaring because change what he want to play (orc fortress, deep castle, warlock, metal, oh !@#)

[Meph]

Update to latest vanilla update... Toady is still releasing version every week or so, and dfhack has no official, stable release, and force event and spawnunit are missing so far. I cant do it yet.

[pfassina]

Hey Meph!
Thanks for the hardwork, Masterwork sure is a great addition to Dwarf Fortress.

I've been playing DF for a couple of years now.
When I first started I tried MDF and my fort died very fast due to some merchants that turned into were-creatures and killed everyone. =)
I was just learning then and this experience scared me a bit so I returned to play vanilla.

Two weeks ago I saw a youtuber playing MDF and I decided to give it a try.
I have been playing since then and I can sure tell you that I changed my mind about MDF.

I will tell you now what I enjoyed the most and things I think that need improvement.
I hope it helps.

WHAT I ENJOYED ABOUT MDF

The thing that I enjoyed the most was the increase of the workflow complexity.
Little additions as processing the ore before smelting it gave the game more life.
It also allowed me to have more jobs for my dorfs to do.

Another thing that I enjoyed is that MDF gave Dwarf Fortress more replay-ability.
There a more things to do, more options to test, more races to play with.
I have only played with dwarfs and I still got a lot to learn before I move to other races.

I also like the simplification of meat, milk, leather and other raw materials.
Although I think it looses some depth and food for imagination, it helps with the FPS and makes things easier.

WHAT I THINK NEEDS IMPROVEMENT

I believe that most of the things I think need improvement are related to one single cause.
There is not enough clarity on how to deal with the new features.

I learned how to play DF watching videos on youtube, asking questions on forums and reading the wiki.
Despite the manual that comes with MDF, I believe that there is a lack of information on how to take the most of the new features.

For example, I have no idea on how technology and magic works.
Also, I had to embark several times and create several worlds until I was capable to play with the dwarfs.
I still don't know for sure how to best create a world with as many races as possible and choose the right civilization when embarking.

I also have the feeling that there many good additions to MDF that I'm not even aware of.
Some are not detailed on the the GUI or the Manual, others I just turned it off because I didn't know for sure what it meant.

I believe that an effort to help introduce new players to the new features of MDF would be a great addition to the mod.
Some examples that come to my mind are workflow charts, a more detailed manual and in game tips.
Regarding the Manual, I see it as a good catalog, but it is not designed to introduce players to the new features.
I'm not sure if I'm making my point clear... but as a board game player I know that there is a difference between a good manual and a great manual!

The only other problem that I have experienced so far were the crashing bugs.
The mod seems very buggy on world creation. It constantly crashed while generating the history. (disabling races seemed to solve, what is a pity...)
Also, it crased more often that I would like while playing the game. What is a huge problem.

I highly recommend that stability should be your number one priority.
Even if you could make MDF the best game/mod of all time, it would be worthless if no one could play it.

The only real issue that could make me stop playing MDF and going back to vanilla would be getting sick of experiencing crashes all the time.

---

Well... that is it.
I hope my comments where helpful and didn't sound too hard.
I do enjoy MDF and I think it is a great mod.

Thank you very much for all the effort you have put into it.

Best Regards!

[palu]

Sounds good. Dwarf mode was getting a bit bloated anyway. Though perhaps you could include a 'Classic' Profile for us veterans . The upgrade building script would help with menu bloat though, and perhaps give a sense of progression & specialization , such as:

Code: [Select]

        ___Forge__
       /     |    \
      / Greatforge \
Weapon forge | Armor forge_
 /    |Advanced metal forge\
Ranged|\          Great armor forge
  Meele Traps                |
          |         Golem Forge
   Adv. Seige engineer
Not necessarily exactly that, but some logical advancement and specialization.
The water idea sounds great, perhaps you could use the single ~ tile for walkable water, ant the standard one for higher. Though it is nice to be able to see at a glance how much water in in something.

[smakemupagus]

Not sure about the darkening water, just because with the depth of view thing (from rendermax? is that what it's called?) already makes water at z-1 through z-15 look darker, so i'm a little afraid it would be confusing.

[black47]

In order:
I use the 1 - 7 numbering on water/magma and I'm very used to it. Could that change to clear/dark tiles be optional? I'd prefer to keep the 1 - 7 plus the MW tileset, and not have to pick between one or the other

As for redoing dwarves... well.. I've been playing all major releases of MW since around v2, but even though I had the intention, I never tried other races (not even orcs, sorry! ). Felt like I had to to exhaust all dwarves features before moving on and learning from scratch a new race, and never got to feel "finished" with them. So the rework sounds great for me.

I've loved watching the mod evolve and I'll keep loving it, and even if I'm not always engaged in the forums and feedback threads, I keep an eye on it whenever I get a chance. Thanks a lot!

[LtGreeneyes]

As a newer player, the changes sound amazing!

Also as a newer player, I can say that some of the manuals seem incomplete or less helpful than I had hoped.  The kobold manual certainly is missing a lot of information and I believe there is even a broken link or two. (Are there perhaps two versions?  It seems that way. O.o )

I would consider myself a veteran of DF (vanilla) and only recently discovered MDF and love the ideas that are driving the game!  I so far have made an attempt at kobolds, which ended horribly as wave after wave of elves, dwarves, and humans attacked me (it seemed a bit much, considering the low numbers and relative wealth of my settlement... maybe I attempted to steal too much... I NEEDED A PICK, dangit!), and orcs, which were going pretty steadily when I got distracted by another game.  I looked into Gnomes, but got scared off before I tried them, haha.

I look forward to and hope that you are able to make things a bit more straightforward and easier to get into!

[LtGreeneyes]

On a side note, it looks as if DFHack has been updated to 40.08, so they're close!   No idea on all the smaller mods/scripts that you use though. :/

[teremaster]

Maybe a more standard dwarf. A bit taller than a regular dwarf but still shorter than a human, just to allow bigger weapons to be wielded.

We could spin it that these dwarves never meddled in the same magic or poison/herbalist and instead took to the lowlands, away from their tunnel-dwelling brethren and evolved a height better suited to the conditions.

A dwarf race that was a little bit worse in the caves but made up for it with better strength and size.

I personally think a more "rugged" dwarf race would help learners pick up the game much faster.

[Rekov]

One of the reasons I have always advocated so strongly for developing playable elves before mushroom men, insects, and the like, is that elves are when it comes down to it, a core part of Dwarf Fortress.

I am glad to see that you are focusing on cleaning up the mod and making is feel cohesive as opposed to a collection of unconnected features. I cannot with certainty speak for others, but I would like to think that we are all more than willing to wait for our desired new content in order to polish that which already exists.

[daisha]

I can only do this by replacing the 1-7, so you checking if water it 3 (passable) or 4 (unpassable) gets a bit more tricky, but I think it looks nicer. It would be one of the things that TwbT allows me to do.

Could you use an obviously different texture on the water tiles for 1-3 vs. 4-7, to make the distinction obvious at a glance, or are you locked into to having all water depths use the same graphic with only the option for different palettes?  A graphic with ripples for 1-3 and fewer or no ripples for the 4-7, you know.

a thread I opened in the general DF section. I let it run its course for 2 weeks and found out that there are two things the deter new players: The large difference between MDF and vanilla DF, and the seemingly aimless additions of features to Dwarf Mode. So I want to improve the GUI to bring the mod closer to vanilla, and include profiles that set the mod to "as close to vanilla as it gets", to "add 20% mod content", "add 40% mod content" and so on. A few presets, because I came to realize that the GUI itself can be overwhelming. If you use it the first time, it will take you an hour to read the tooltips alone. ^^

I think this is an excellent choice.  Profile tweaking and GUI work may not be as fun and exciting as adding new content, but I think it is very likely to broaden your audience.  I'd suggest working out the GUI and limiting the number of pre-set profiles you do (maybe just a near-vanilla one and a "recommended settings" one) and leave the proliferation of profiles to the community.  Maybe you could appoint a curator to maintain a wiki page on GUI setting profiles, with a few good ones selected from the slew of community submissions at the top of the page.

My solution to this is to change dwarves. I havent fully decided yet if I make 2 civs, a "vanilla dwarf civ" with only a few additions, and a "masterwork dwarf civ", or if I make "deep/hill/mountain/whatever dwarves", and split their features into quarters, or if I make a new concept for Dwarf Mode (like I did with Warlocks and Humans) and rebuild it from there... probably super mining/machine/forging/smelting focussed. The end result will be the same: A smaller dwarf mode. (Dont worry hardcore MDF fans, I can potentially leave everything that currently exists as an option, which is disabled by default.)

I like the idea of a deep/hill/mountain dwarf split.  Hill dwarves could be denied magma forges, and the discussion of deep dwarves in the other thread sounded like great fun...  If you wanted to include vanilla-like dwarves in your recommended settings I would suggest making them the mountain dwarves, but I think it would be even cooler if you themed the mountain dwarves uniquely and had a 4th and 5th option for vanilla-like and full masterwork dwarves, respectively.

[daisha]

One thing that would be nice is to add caste pop rates to a tab on the GUI.  There's nothing worse than getting a fisherman's guild dwarf at embark when you've selected a site unlikely to have fish.  Except multiple priests.  Or a fire mage.