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[The Moonlit Knight]

Right, so. Recently gave modding a shot, decided to try and make a new civilization. Went with Tieflings (a D&D monster race; pretty much just humans who can trace their ancestry back to demons), pretty much just copy/pasted stuff from Humans and Goblins, removing and adding bits here and there using the Wiki as a guide.

Now, as far as I can tell, they're in the game properly, but here are my questions if anyone can answer them (maybe even the almighty Toady One?   ):

1. I set the civ's settlements to be placed on Plains, and so when I check what civs could be interacting with my fortress, it's always just Humans or Tieflings one or the other, never both. If I have Tieflings in range, does that mean Human caravans would never show up?

2. The Tieflings are always listed as "No Trade". Is there even a way to get them to trade with you? Also, how would the civ interact with my fortress anyways? It's set as "likes to fight" (since they're evil little bastards), but will they ever actually siege me or is making a new civ pretty much only for show (and maybe checking out in Adventure Mode)?

[PNB]

Your own race will never fuck with you. also DRAGON FORTRESS! thing is, you should be able to get humans to trade with you. My dragon settlers once had a delicious dwarf caravan.

[The Moonlit Knight]

Well I'm not playin' as the Tieflings, I just added them for the hell of it, maybe for a new enemy to fight besides the Goblins. So my major concern was just how they'd function.

And the Humans will trade with me, I'm sure, but the thing is when I go for the Fortress Selection bit, it'll say something like

Dwarves
Goblins
Elves
Humans

Or,

Dwarves
Goblins
Elves
Tieflings NO TRADE

So I'm wondering if the Tieflings completely replace the Humans in the latter instance or is it just that the game isn't used to displaying more than 4 Civs? And still the question of how the new civ would interact with me; is there a way to get them to trade? Will they ever siege me?

EDIT: Looked around in the DF folders, and it seems to me that trade is hard-coded into the game for only certain civs, but if anyone can prove me wrong, that'd be nice to know. I'm still not entirely sure whether they can siege me; I'm testing out a fortress now to see if it'll happen, but it'd be nice to know if I'm wasting my time. And the last question I'm still not sure on at all; if Humans aren't listed in the fortress placement screen, does that mean I won't see them at all, or is that merely because the game is used to only having 4 civs to display?

[ June 30, 2007: Message edited by: The Moonlit Knight ]

[Fleeb]

Yes, you won't see humans if your Tieflings are present. They should be able to trade with you, I made Flinds and they replace the humans in some areas and most certainly do trade. I'd suggest examineing the civ entries for humans and see what your Tieflings are missing.

[qwertyuiopas]

Im not sure about this, but I think that, when the world is generated, it picks 1 race from each entity. I never tested, but try making a copy of the plains entity?

[Jothki]

quote:Originally posted by Fleeb:
<STRONG>Yes, you won't see humans if your Tieflings are present. They should be able to trade with you, I made Flinds and they replace the humans in some areas and most certainly do trade. I'd suggest examineing the civ entries for humans and see what your Tieflings are missing.</STRONG>

Does that mean that you can create multiple versions of the same race, some of which are hostile and some of which are friendly, and have no way to tell which is which from the fortress creation screen?

[Fleeb]

I suppose, certain types will always be friendly, like plains civs (humans by default). You could mod in evil nusiance or child-snatcher humans by crossing humans with kobolds or goblins.

[ July 02, 2007: Message edited by: Fleeb ]

[ricemastah]

The question is then... does the nuisance tag only work for cave/mountain settlements? As I have so far only added cave annoyances as civs. Try adding the child-snatcher or nuisance tags. Tell me what happens!

[The Moonlit Knight]

All right, this is my entry for the Tieflings, many portions omitted since they're unnecessary for the example.

[ENTITY: DEMON] <--spaced due to smiley
[PLAINS_SETTLEMENTS]
[CREATURE:TIEFLING]
[TRANSLATION:HUMAN]
[SIEGEAMMO:ITEM_SIEGEAMMO_BALLISTA]
[SIEGER]
[CLOTHING]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:CIV:NAME_ENTITY_KINGDOM]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:SITE:NAME_ENTITY_TOWN_FOUNDER]
[RIVER_PRODUCTS]
[OCEAN_PRODUCTS]
[OUTDOOR_FARMING]
[USE_EVIL_ANIMALS]
[USE_ANIMAL_PRODUCTS]

As of yet I've had no trade with them, no sieges, no contact at all, really. I'll likely have my first goblin siege this winter, so I'll see how that goes; maybe the Tieflings will come along. More reports to follow.

edit: Abandoning the fortress now. The siege never came and, honestly, my dwarves are far too miserable (a famine caused SEVERAL catastrophes among the population). I'll add a [nuisance] tag and report the findings.

[ July 03, 2007: Message edited by: The Moonlit Knight ]

[ricemastah]

What kind of goods did you add to the entity? I know that one of the modded civs I added in had no items in their towns. I realized afterwards that the entity lacked any goods and stuff. After fixing that they seemed ok. They were plains, but I did not care to make them siege or evil. Can I see the omitted parts?

[The Moonlit Knight]

Omitted parts as follows:

[DIGGER:ITEM_WEAPON_PICK]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_WHIP]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CROSSBOW]
   [AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BOLTS]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BOW]
   [AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_ARROWS]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PIKE]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HALBERD]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_2H]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_LONG]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SCIMITAR]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_PLATEMAIL:UNCOMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_CHAINMAIL:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_LEATHER:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_COAT:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_SHIRT:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_CLOAK:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_TUNIC:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_TOGA:UNCOMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_CAPE:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_VEST:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_DRESS:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_ROBE:COMMON]
[HELM:ITEM_HELM_HELM:COMMON]
[HELM:ITEM_HELM_CAP:COMMON]
[HELM:ITEM_HELM_HOOD:COMMON]
[HELM:ITEM_HELM_MASK:COMMON]
[HELM:ITEM_HELM_VEIL_HEAD:UNCOMMON]
[HELM:ITEM_HELM_VEIL_FACE:UNCOMMON]
[HELM:ITEM_HELM_SCARF_HEAD:UNCOMMON]
[GLOVES:ITEM_GLOVES_GAUNTLETS:COMMON]
[GLOVES:ITEM_GLOVES_GLOVES:COMMON]
[SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_SHOES:COMMON]
[SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS:COMMON]
[SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS_LOW:COMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_PANTS:COMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_GREAVES:COMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_LEGGINGS:COMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_THONG:UNCOMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_SKIRT:COMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_SKIRT_SHORT:COMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_SKIRT_LONG:UNCOMMON]
[SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_SHIELD]
[SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_BUCKLER]
[SIEGEAMMO:ITEM_SIEGEAMMO_BALLISTA]
[TOY:ITEM_TOY_HAMMER]
[TOY:ITEM_TOY_AXE]
[INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_DRUM]
[CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
[CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
[CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:ALL:EVIL]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:ALL:MYSTERY]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:GOOD]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:FLOWERY]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:HOLY]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:PEACE]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:UGLY]

Edit: also, now that I've added the [nuisance] tag, it seems that they no longer appear on the map. Perhaps nuisances don't get towns/fortresses of their own? Still testing to see if they will interact by stealing or sieging.

[ July 03, 2007: Message edited by: The Moonlit Knight ]

[Fleeb]

Nuisance civs will replace kobolds in some areas. They'll get dark fortresses and won't trade. All they'll do is steal from ya.

[ July 05, 2007: Message edited by: Fleeb ]

[Tormy]

I dont understand this. Why the new modded in civs are replacing old "vanilla" civs. All of them should be in the game.   :eek:

[Grek]

There is currently a hardcoded limit to the number of a given kind of outpost.

[Tormy]

quote:Originally posted by Grek:
<STRONG>There is currently a hardcoded limit to the number of a given kind of outpost.</STRONG>

Ah...gotcha.
Well the limit might be cancelled sometime. Lets hope..