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[ThreeToe]

Toady One has informed me that there haven't been enough spell requests for the up-coming magic release.  We need ideas for rituals and effects.

My first Idea was using power-words (ritual) to burst organs (effect).  Another which Toady has planned is body-detonation (effect)but no specific ritual- what should it be?

Right now there is no code for projectiles so we can't have fireballs, but the rest is up to your imagination.  I can think of a whole bunch more, but I want to hear from the rest of you.

[spelguru]

Maybe the spellcaster just stands there and chants for the amount of time it takes to attack twice, more if the spell is really good. Then the targeted creature suffers the effects.

Here are some spell ideas:
Sever Spell: Depending on how good you are at spell casting, a different number of appendages just get ripped of the enemies body.

Disarm: Targeted creature just drops his weapon.

Heal: Heals a number of wounds depending on your spellcasting skills. Not severs.

Improved Heal: Same as the one before, exept that severs are healed to if you have the missing appendage with you.

Fatigue: Enemy loses stamina.

Item Summon: Conjures a item to use (small creatures donīt get titan items).

Death: The enemy suffers a killing blow to the brain or it is twisted and torn apart. Chance of succeding depends on casting skill.

Race Summon: Summon 2d2 creatures of your race (not usable by anything larger than twice a human).

If you need more, donīt hesitate to ask.

[Harlander]

Here's a few:

Blindness: causes the target creature to lose the power of sight

Iron Grip: makes the caster's grip on its weapon completely unbreakable.. it won't drop from their grasp in combat, and disarm spells won't work on them. If you sever the arm, the sword will still be gripped  :p

Animate Corpse/Chunks: A corpse or piece of a corpse is revived to attack targets of the caster's choosing. Imagine an army of arms! "Arm yourself, men!" Hehehehe.

And some Ritual ideas:

Musical instruments ( different combinations of notes could form different spells, and different instruments could change the effect a bit )

A sacrifice of the caster's blood (for necromantic spells)

[Demon]

I think that casting powerful spells sould require drawing circles and diagrams with blood, silver dust, etc.  

Also, I think components should make casting easier, not be a strict requirement!  Maybe they prevent the blood loss or cellular damage or fatigue or whatever (I told you you'd go blind!   Obviously not quite THAT powerful but fun...

[ May 15, 2002: Message edited by: Demon ]

[ThreeToe]

Iron Grip used against enemies would be good.

[spelguru]

Steal: Grabs the enemy weapon and send it to your hand!

Shrink: Shrinks the enemy! How much damage could a Titan in the size of a Norway Rats toe do?

Kamikaze Sever: Every one get ripped to pieces in your line of sight, but for every enemy slain you risk severing your own neck by a multiplier of 5% per kill!!!

Berserker: Target targets anyone who is close!

I got more!

[X]

Hi Tarn et al, I have a break in the work/party load so thought I'd drop by.

The one thing I'd say about spells is I don't think the 'cast specific spell' system would work well with this game, so rather than ideas for spells people should be suggesting ways for a generalised magic system to work.

I'll try and explain this view. So far, despite being simplistic in gameplay, ArmOk runs on complex real life principles. I feel just tacking on the arbitary magic system used in your typical D&D/FF style game would not work. Although magic obviously has no real world basis to work off, it still needs some sort of cohesive structure to insure it is consistant with the rest of the game. Even if this does mean a 'magic missile' equivalent is the only spell for months.  

X

*cough* When we gonna see some strategy in combat? *cough*

<EDITNOTE> Just correcting my amazing ability to leave sentances unfinished mid paragraph </EDITNOTE>

[ May 20, 2002: Message edited by: X ]

[Toady One]

Seven releases from now, I'm completely enhancing combat so that it is to the point where my brother stops threatening me  However, people need clothes first.

Thanks for all of the spell requests.  I'm not going to comment on specifics, or it will ruin the surprise, but I think I'll be able to put lots of them in when I do magic.

I guess my segmented rants on The Supernatural Future Page don't get the plan across very well.  Basically, magic is going to be random like everything else (the most informative extant game component is the combat fighting style system, I suppose, although that's kinda weak right now).

At its core, a magic spell is a list of steps and tests and so on (much like a computer program), and each step or test is accomplished by a ritual (reagents, hand-waving, diagrams, thought, screaming, whatever).  Each step of a spell is a "spell effect".  Aside from technical things like targeting, effects are the most basic things a spell can do: "apply force", "heat", "cool", "teleport" (although teleport might be broken down in various ways), ETC.  Each effect takes arguments -- "heat" for example, must be provided with, say, a magnitude and a target (targets can be items, creatures, areas, whatever).  There is also a system of timers and triggers to make more complicated spells.

Those are the dry facts.  What the game will do to make things more interesting is construct "magical arts" -- that term isn't meant to imply much beyond a set of rituals that have magical effects in the game universe.  Different sects and entities can be built up around a magical art, but the art's characteristics are independent of that.  Each art could either consist of stereotyped spell "programs" (like the example spells listed in posts above), or it could be a list of rituals and effects that can be strung together at will to form new spells (deconstructing the examples above into their component effects and mixing them around as you wish).  The arts can be constructed according to a given flavor...  for example, an evil necromantic art might include the effects "rot", "kill", "summon spirit", "raise dead" and "disease".  The rituals could be built under the same flavor settings.  I think in the future pages I also mention side effects or something like that.

Finally, the game can build up actual "entities" ("entities" are things like towns and tribes and guilds) around the magical arts it has generated.  Since the game will keep track of the flavor settings that made the art, it can create appropriately flavored entitities around the art.  Using that evil necromantic art again, the game might create a cult that practices the art, complete with disgusting rituals and initiation rites -- it's easy to do just by saving the flavor settings (or analyzing an art for its flavor).

Is that what you meant?  Or was there some other concern you had?

I just finished grading 223 of the same question on the calculus midterm, so not much has happened Armok-wise over the past few days.  I'll try to finish the third labor (description enhancements) tonight.

Insert the letter u above as necessary.

[Toady One]

Hmmm...  maybe one spell system might be around "thinking bad thoughts" and doing some other ritual.  So you could put yourself in a bad mood, wave your hand, and some prescribed awful will happen.  Dainty fairy creatures wouldn't be able to conjure up the negative ruminations required.  Your "creativity" attribute might help, since you could think of more evil things, although that wouldn't be required.  Other skills/personality traits could come into play.

When I do temperature (rather soon -- before magic), the game will also support general "aura" measures of various kinds...  then thinking bad thoughts could increase the negativity or evil in a certain area.  Very powerful evil demon-type creatures could corrupt entire regions just by ruminating in their dark lairs for hundreds of years.  They'd also be very good at the magic from the first paragraph.

[spelguru]

A magic system that works in the gameworld without set spells... I read about such a thing in a fantasy book where people used the so called Saiden/Saidin, girls used Saidin and men Saiden. When they used this force they built up alot of energy inside and then released it in 5 different types of forces, the four elements and spirit.Depending on how they mixed these forces they casted different spells. I think that a spell (with the lack of a better word) called "Lance Fire" (rough translation) was pure fire and it burned the target right out of existence and time. And they were coming up with new spells all the time. If u use a nospells system, think about this one

[Alanor]

hehe

The wheel of time!!!

And the idea of  "Bale-Fire" was that it would burn the very thread of existance out of the "weave of reality"...
the more powerful the bale-fire the farther back in time the thread was burnt out!!!

This caused rather interesting effects...
people who had been slain by person X (forgive the X, X ;-)   was they slain by person Y with bale-Fire... and the people who were dead were suddenly alive again!!!!

this would create some complicated mechanics...

Basicaly though the whole idea behind the wheel of time magic is simpily "channeling" magic.. where the caster draws power from some external area into themselves.. then weaves it forth to create magical effects.

In terms Of the magic system vs. spells is an important point..  (as a comment to X) I would say that what people are tossing out here are just EXAMPLES of spell EFFECTS that we MUST HAVE!!! ;-)  for the game.. the actual spell system will likely be much more complicated than the standard DnD system :-)

My thoughts on the magic system are pretty involved... hehe
but I will try to sum up some of my ideas here to see what you guys think...

Magic consists of many different parts, but the main parts are basically:

Power Source
type of access to source
method of tapping source
method of shaping power
effect created

I guess those hit the main points..  I probibly missed some that you guys will think of.. but to further explain what i mean i will give some further examples.. and an example of what a spell might be like..

Power sources:
Basically where the power comes from, some common examples are:

Gods/ deity - Faith power
Direct Willpower
direct power source (as saidin and saidar)
(basicaly a universal source of power  that "talented" people can tap into)
Elemental power ( from the elemental planes)
Nature/ Life power (has a few sub-parts)
  1)  Druid-like -- using the life of trees and such in a friendly manner
  2)  Corrupter -- draining the power out of life around you (killing trees for power)
  3)  necromancer -- draining lives/ souls for power
Emotional power ( As Tarn's Aura based magic using force of emotion to control things... sorta like direct will)

Type of power access:
This basically means how you get to your power...
Do you:
Draw power into yourself?
Push power to your target location?
do you just open holes to the elemental planes?
This part might be on its own, or blended into be part of the power source itself...

Method of tapping source:
does it take an item?
does it require a ritual?
gods require prayers
but willpower can just be USED

Method of Shaping power:
this is the creation of the effect
through some ritual or something
usually something has to be done here
to shape the effect
common ideas of rituals are:
dances,
songs,
words of power (or just words).
prayer (directing what you want to happen)
hand movements
concentration

Finally Effect:
Effects take tons of forms, but can also be broken down into a few different parts...
like tarn said earlier..
for instance the effect might be described with a verb and a noun
Create- Fire
Throw - fire
change - frog

Lots of other things can go in here too
like targeting and such
but this is also where all of your spell effects become important
create hand-strength (rock grip!)
destroy(burst!) enemy - organ (heart)
heal -wound
translocate -weapon  (disarm)
(note that many spells could be done in different ways! )
destroy hand-strenght (disarm!!)
destroy-arm  (dis- arm!!! hehe)

Those are some basic hits on what i think are the important points of a magic system
and you can come up with some basic examples of spells that you might cast with one or any of these systems...
for existance

Gordan, blood priest of armok wants to call forth Armok's power to burst the heart of his hapless victim!
He uses the sequence
Armok, Prayer, Prayer, (destroy-heart effect)
"Lord Of Blood, Hear my Call!
This man's blood is thy thrall!
kill his heart, make it stall!"
(hehe)

Someone using other systems would use different sequences..
Rand wants to call forth some bale-fire to slay his enemy really well hehe...
he uses the power source: saidin
using his will, he grapples ahold of the power source
using his will he concentrates, and weaves forth threads of power to his enemy
the fire -weave that he creates causes the enemy to burst into flame

Roland the mage wants to cast fireball!
Roland is an elementalist..
his power source is the elemental plane of fire
he does a short ritual...
waving his fingers back and forth, and shouting "FLAM!"
to open a portal to the elemental plane of fire...
then he wants to shape the elements..
he does another ritual..
he cups his hand and then points toward his target
and creates the effect (throw-fire(ball))
poof! toasted enemy!

long winded... but i hope i got my ideas across... tell me what you guys think.. and feel free to add different ideas to each of the categories!!

[spelguru]

My favourite is Perrin and thanks for syaing the real names on the saidar and the bale fire. If the balefire spell gets implemented it should also destroy worn/hold equipment since balefire basicly turns the target(s) into thin dust that disappears. Then cutting their thread in the wheel of time. Also there should be prison spells related to objects. In that book where balefire comes from there is an really evil superultramegaICanChangeRealitypowerful deamon inprisoned in the lands of evil. When seven artifacts (strange discs) get destroyed, he is free. Implement sumthing like that.

[Harlander]

It'd be cool to be able to do random eccentricities for magical systems (I was put in mind of this by the mention of Wheel of Time and the effect magic has on male channelers (i.e slowly crushing their sanity))

It'd be good if any range of wierd, stupid conditions could be placed on spellcasting.  For example, an implementation of a law of conservation which replaces every mass unit of matter destroyed with an equivalent mass of a random material, possibly at a random location or at a locale determined by the caster. (This could be useful if the random element happened to be boiling lava, but less useful if it was a natural regeneration-stimulating substance)

Some curbs would be needed on this facility, as some effects could make magic unusable.

[ May 17, 2002: Message edited by: Harlander ]

[Demon]

Some magic could rely completely on a certian "aura" to gain its power.  In the Cold Fire Trilogy there wasent magic instead there was a force of sorts that would flow over the ground, called earth fey.  There were a few other types of fey like solar, dark, and tidal (water basically) and people would use them to influence their surroundings.

About auras: I want to see some form of magic that influences them.  You could make a carving on a floor and all around people would get a general feel of fear or happyness or whatever.  You could also make one to heat a house...  They would provide permanent (until destroyed) but minor aura influences over a certain area.  Sort of like an artifical demon stewing in his dungeon...    :cool:

Also, transmutation of one material into another is useful but fabrication of that material should be possible also.  You could for example turn a tree into a sword.  It would all be mass dependant, probably...

[ThreeToe]

Speaking of "the force" in honor of the newest Star Wars movie: I nominate The Force as a magic system.  

The force is strong with some, weak with others.  gives power over the feeble-minded.  Passed on through the family.  In addition to mind-control, there is teleconisis.  But if you give into your hate you join the dark-side, can kill lesser beings with your mind and shoot energy-bolts, but are enslaved to the dark-lord.