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[a1s]

((BTW how's the new color?))

((Excellent. Thank you))

((Campesinos and coffee growers are more or less the same. They're for one under the same leadership/organization if i remember correctly. So helping coffee growers is helping the campesinos and helping the campesinos is helping the coffee growers.))

((I kinda assumed campesinos and CGs were both small time, but that coffe growers were the wealthier ones and campesinos the poorer ones (think farmers Vs. peasants.) I should really run down a copy of this game again, it's been ages since I played it.))

Perhaps, Presidente, you will consider a middle path?  Let a lottery pick half the tenants of Farsantes lands to get the rent reprieve for a year so that the harvest can be helped next year.  The other farms will be sold to those who are willing to strike a deal with diabolo in the bank.  Then we have at least some improvement for the people.

I'm not sure about half, but a lottery could distract the people from their daily suffering. I'm game if Luiz is.

Next item on the agenda: What to do with the Guard?

[mainiac]

((I was using "coffee grower" as a stand in for the better off farmers while "coffee worker" are the poorest, landless farmers.))

Don't be afraid of progress, Presidente.  The people expect revolution from you, not status quo.

((Keep in mind that our combined authority on this issue is 6 while 3man75 has 5 authority))

Next item on the agenda: What to do with the Guard?

While most of them have not yet been brought to justice we can at least hold trials for those in custody.  We need to show that people that the courts are in favor of justice and progress.

[3man75]

"The landless farmers are making the food and coffee that is doing so well in the international markets. If we want to succeed than we must help THEM succeed. My plans are best for that, would the President not agree?"


Again, i will leave the rest of the agenda in your hands. The economy is my cheif concern and i am no lawyer, no devil, and a man with only calculations. I am an Economist.

[a1s]

((Keep in mind that our combined authority on this issue is 6 while 3man75 has 5 authority))

((Keep in mind your ministerial resource only allows you to affect 2 issues (extant or new.))

While most of them have not yet been brought to justice we can at least hold trials for those in custody.  We need to show that people that the courts are in favor of justice and progress.

I am in favor of justice being done. However the Guard's off-the-books methodology makes proving guilt difficult. We could institute a system of punishment reductions for guard members willing to testify (the people won't take this well) or relax the rules of evidence in cases relating to the guard (the international community will see this as a human rights violation).
And then of course there's the whole business with Comrade Santiago: Dozens of estate holders in the east of our country claim that he had engaged in a campaign of terror and banditism, stealing produce and machinery and killing those who resisted. Though he is a revolutionary of exceptional magnitude, shouldn't we at least ask him (and others) to publicly apologize?

[mainiac]

Well if you agree to my plan for reductions in the army we can make sure that Santiago is quietly removed from power and solve this problem without much fuss.

((Keep in mind your ministerial resource only allows you to affect 2 issues (extant or new.))

((I could use some clarification on these rules.  My interpretation is that actions are the number of things you can instigate.  So my proposal for army reductions is an action and my private message to 10ebbor10 is another action.  However when I respond to the land reform that 3man75 started that isn't an action.

Authority as I understand it is a separate thing.  Everyone is allowed to exercise their authority on 3man75's land proposal or my army reduction proposal because they are openly conducted actions and that is the drawback to open actions.))

[a1s]

((I could use some clarification on these rules.  My interpretation is that actions are the number of things you can instigate.  So my proposal for army reductions is an action and my private message to 10ebbor10 is another action.  However when I respond to the land reform that 3man75 started that isn't an action.

((the rules are a little poorly formatted, saying what doesn't require an action (issues you already paid an action to make) instead of what does (presumably everything except free actions, which a 'crisis' isn't))

[10ebbor10]

((I could use some clarification on these rules.  My interpretation is that actions are the number of things you can instigate.  So my proposal for army reductions is an action and my private message to 10ebbor10 is another action.  However when I respond to the land reform that 3man75 started that isn't an action.

((the rules are a little poorly formatted, saying what doesn't require an action (issues you already paid an action to make) instead of what does (presumably everything except free actions, which a 'crisis' isn't))

This interpretation is correct, though I'm thinking of changing it.

[3man75]

((Correct you CAN influence my land reform but my character simply does NOT want to. Therefore he'll be doing everything in his power to keep it as he wants it.

Also i was under the impression that voting was for free?))

[10ebbor10]

It wasn't intended to be, but if everyone's all right with it, I'll change it. Makes things easier for me.

On a side note, voting is free for the character that brought everything up. (I'll do a status update and give everyone all info on friday)

[a1s]

((Correct you CAN influence my land reform but my character simply does NOT want to. Therefore he'll be doing everything in his power to keep it as he wants it.

Also i was under the impression that voting was for free?))

((nope. This is the cost of bringing issues to the national assembly: you can get major reforms done, or it can explode in your face.))

Speaking of votes. It's getting late, and I need to pick up my kids from school. So those with proposed solutions to our problems, please restate them in their final form.  And then we'll vote.

[mainiac]

Proposal by Eva Christino Regarding the National Re-Unification Army
The struggle for freedom is past and now is time to reap the harvest of peace.  Military minister Eva Christino proposes that we reduce the level of the military within 3 months to the level it was under Farsante and within 12 cut it in half again.  This will call for a dramatic reduction of personnel both from the old guard and the new revolutionary forces.
Sub-Commandant Correa and Colonel Erlich should both nominate half the men men from their respective forces to be retained for the year with the remainder released within 3 months.  Of those retained for 12 months, all must be reinstated by minister Christino or they will be released.  Minister Christino will also be able to release units as she sees fit within the 12 months.

((5 Authority;4 from ministry 1 from Sub Commandante support))

Response to other proposals
Against the food stamps. ((1 Authority))
Against the land rentals. ((3 Authority; 1 base and 2 from campesino support))
For changing land rentals into sale of half the land, rent free use of the other half ((3 Authority again))

[a1s]

Response to other proposals
Against the food stamps. ((1 Authority))
Against the land rentals. ((3 Authority; 1 base and 2 from campesino support))
For changing land rentals into sale of half the land, rent from use of the other half ((3 Authority again))

((There's no "against", you can only "back" one plan or another. But even with that aside, say you oppose renting, and then in the same breath endorse a plan that has it. I'm sure you had something very specific in mind, which is exactly why I asked everyone to restate their proposals (up to one proposal per person, per problem. Also, I think it's reasonable to require that if you make it, you also auto-back it). Also, this is more optional, but let's cast votes after all proposals are stated, so there is no mess with changing votes))

Proposal by Eva Christino Regarding the National Re-Unification Army
The struggle for freedom is past and now is time to reap the harvest of peace.  Military minister Eva Christino proposes that we reduce the level of the military within 3 months to the level it was under Farsante and within 12 cut it in half again.  This will call for a dramatic reduction of personnel both from the old guard and the new revolutionary forces.
Sub-Commandant Correa and Colonel Erlich should both nominate half the men men from their respective forces to be retained for the year with the remainder released within 3 months.  Of those retained for 12 months, all must be reinstated by minister Christino or they will be released.  Minister Christino will also be able to release units as she sees fit within the 12 months.

((5 Authority;4 from ministry 1 from Sub Commandante support))

((This, incidentally, is perfect thank you))

[mainiac]

((Sorry I mistyped, fixed.))

Or to put it in a different format:

Counter Proposal on Farsante's Land
We must free the farmers who were used as wage slaves by Farsante, not exploit them ourselves or sell them to the bankers.  This will allow a growth in the harvest and help the food shortages in our nation.  The lands of Farsante should be put into a lottery with half of them selected to be farmed, rent free, by those who farmed them already.  The other half should be sold in small plots to those who are willing to buy them.

[a1s]

So, anyway here are mine:


El Presidente's plan to solve mass hunger and redistribute land:
Food stamps are issued to people with income below the 20th percentile [roughly 20% poorest Chimericans get them]. These can be exchanged for food from the Government Food Fund. They can not be exchanged for money, and though stores can feel free to accept and exchange them, no bulk discounts will be provided. Government Food Fund will be sourced from the land-for-food program, with any shortfall being made up by buying food on the open market.

The government land will be parceled out in 10 hectare plots each rented out to 1 willing family (or single man) in a 10 year lease. In lieu of paying money, participants can opt into the land-for-food program, wherein instead of paying rent they can provide a quarter of their harvest to the Government Food Fund.

((This is actually 2 proposals, but they are intended to either pass or fail together
both have 3 authority to start.
edit:Unless I can claim shopkeeper support from not doing price control or rationing?))


El Presidente's directive to the war crime courts:
Courts will be directed to try and indict as many former Guard members as possible. However, the state is not unkind and any guard members willing to serve as witnesses in trials of those accused of more serious crimes can expect plea bargains to be offered for reduced sentences.
The state will offer vague reassurances that it doesn't support "extremism" on either side, but no charges against overzealous revolutionaries will be made. Elements of the revolutionary army most likely to embarrass the new government in this regard will be quietly and honorably retired.

((the proposal has 5 authority to start (3 for being presidential and 2 for being in line with human rights)).

[Sheb]

((Should I vote for this turn, or wait to be introduced next turn?))