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[Jelle]

I'm not sure what you hope to achieve on this topic once more. It should be obvious by now after the previous threads this is not something that can be meaningfully discussed here, especially so quickly after the last times. That isn't to say it's not something worth discussing, just that, here at least, it's not going to happen.

I can only suggest you (op) and anyone else who is somehow shocked by this whole thing have opened your eyes to the kind of people you'll find on the internet, and simply learn to avoid these kind of groups. Really there is no point in getting up in arms about this, that only polarizes things further.

I hope toady closed this because of the toxic bullshit this is and how it make us treat each other

No no I beg to differ, a topic can't force anyone to act in a certain way, it can only expose someone for who they truly are.

[Phmcw]

Hey, hey, no one should care.

First, the intergrity of game journalist is hardly the most pressing matter at the moment. I even wonder what would be the point : spare you the downloading time of trying the game?

Second gaming journalism is largely a cancerous field full of politics, ideology where none apply, gossips, ... it's infotraiment. By definition there is no intergrity.

Third, the field doesn't involve most gamers : pretentious hipster games were never a favorite of 4chan or the gaming section of reddit and I think they are largely hypocritical since they usually don't give a fuck about it.

Fourth this will change nothing : the SJW that infested gaming in recent years are full of a clique mentality, and only came because gaming was labelled "cool". They are control freaks and drama addicts, and that won't change whatever you do.

So what I think is that 4chan found an excuse to gang on SJW's, and that any reasonable human being should stay of of this : if you're not yourself an SJW, I don't see how you could give a single fuck about the reviews of "Depression quest". Let the SJW's solve that among themselves, that'll end in a nice circlejerk.

This is largely reminiscient of the Anita scandal : while I agree that her backers were truly and well scammed, they won't ever admit it and those who expressed outrage over it where not the one that backed her.

[alexandertnt]

Right, here is my take on the whole "Corruption in Journalism" thing:

AAA publishers spend thousands on bribes, and the internet seems pretty content, for the most part, to let it go.

Some indie dev comes along with some free text game nobody otherwise knows anything about, has sex with a journalist and suddenly cries of corruption can be heard from rooftops.

Some time in the future when this "scandle" dries up, the internet will go back to it's previous state of relative contentedness.

*closes book* The End.

[Aptus]

Person A makes product, A has sex with journalist B, B writes good review of product.

How people can not see that this is troubling and undermines the credibility of the publication the journalist works for is beyond me. I don't give a toss about anything surrounding this. Everything else is superfluous. The above series of events is the only thing I care about in this whole mess and the people defending that behaviour is the very reason games journalism is not respected as real journalism.

Just imagine a reporter at cnn having sex with the boss of some start up company and then proceeding to write fluff pieces for that company, the backlash against cnn would be immense but here for some reason the opposite is true. It doesn't even matter if the product is bloody amazing, the journalistic piece will still be tainted and should have been written by another person.

Those are my two cents and all I will say on this issue. There is a reason I don't follow "games journalism".

EDIT: I also don't see how. "Other corrupt behaviour occurs so this is not that important." Is a valid defense. If anything, that is FURTHER damnation. And don't forget, journalists DO get called out on undue corporate influences. Doritogate and the person from giant bomb who got fired are examples. What is 'shocking' is that people somehow think that just because you are an indie dev you get a free pass and can obviously not be as bad as the big companies. Big companies are also made of people, and all people have the potential to do fucking terrible things. Indie or not.

[(int) magicMissile]

I'm not sure what you hope to achieve on this topic once more. It should be obvious by now after the previous threads this is not something that can be meaningfully discussed here, especially so quickly after the last times. That isn't to say it's not something worth discussing, just that, here at least, it's not going to happen.

I can only suggest you (op) and anyone else who is somehow shocked by this whole thing have opened your eyes to the kind of people you'll find on the internet, and simply learn to avoid these kind of groups. Really there is no point in getting up in arms about this, that only polarizes things further.

I hope toady closed this because of the toxic bullshit this is and how it make us treat each other

No no I beg to differ, a topic can't force anyone to act in a certain way, it can only expose someone for who they truly are.

Ultimately, it's a different topic. I want us to not focus on the issues mentioned in the past topics (this entire thing has grown beyond that enormously),  but instead to focus on what exactly is going on in the world of gaming journalism, and the subsequent media blackout when people question it.

The issue is that those people control the dissemination of the news. Innocents have been demonised for these people in order to further their agenda.

Hey, hey, no one should care.

First, the intergrity of game journalist is hardly the most pressing matter at the moment. I even wonder what would be the point : spare you the downloading time of trying the game?

Second gaming journalism is largely a cancerous field full of politics, ideology where none apply, gossips, ... it's infotraiment. By definition there is no intergrity.

Third, the field doesn't involve most gamers : pretentious hipster games were never a favorite of 4chan or the gaming section of reddit and I think they are largely hypocritical since they usually don't give a fuck about it.

Fourth this will change nothing : the SJW that infested gaming in recent years are full of a clique mentality, and only came because gaming was labelled "cool". They are control freaks and drama addicts, and that won't change whatever you do.

So what I think is that 4chan found an excuse to gang on SJW's, and that any reasonable human being should stay of of this : if you're not yourself an SJW, I don't see how you could give a single fuck about the reviews of "Depression quest". Let the SJW's solve that among themselves, that'll end in a nice circlejerk.

This is largely reminiscient of the Anita scandal : while I agree that her backers were truly and well scammed, they won't ever admit it and those who expressed outrage over it where not the one that backed her.

It's important to try and improve things, regardless. This is easily the biggest shitstorm I have ever seen in any sort of nerd subculture, it's ludicrous.

Right, here is my take on the whole "Corruption in Journalism" thing:

AAA publishers spend thousands on bribes, and the internet seems pretty content, for the most part, to let it go.

Some indie dev comes along with some free text game nobody otherwise knows anything about, has sex with a journalist and suddenly cries of corruption can be heard from rooftops.

Some time in the future when this "scandle" dries up, the internet will go back to it's previous state of relative contentedness.

*closes book* The End.

I wouldn't be so certain about this drying up. It might do eventually, but 4chan is still pushing hard.

[Sergarr]

Person A makes product, A has sex with journalist B, B writes good review of product.

How people can not see that this is troubling and undermines the credibility of the publication the journalist works for is beyond me. I don't give a toss about anything surrounding this. Everything else is superfluous. The above series of events is the only thing I care about in this whole mess and the people defending that behaviour is the very reason games journalism is not respected as real journalism.

Just imagine a reporter at cnn having sex with the boss of some start up company and then proceeding to write fluff pieces for that company, the backlash against cnn would be immense but here for some reason the opposite is true. It doesn't even matter if the product is bloody amazing, the journalistic piece will still be tainted and should have been written by another person.

Those are my two cents and all I will say on this issue. There is a reason I don't follow "games journalism".

EDIT: I also don't see how. "Other corrupt behaviour occurs so this is not that important." Is a valid defense. If anything, that is FURTHER damnation. And don't forget, journalists DO get called out on undue corporate influences. Doritogate and the person from giant bomb who got fired are examples. What is 'shocking' is that people somehow think that just because you are an indie dev you get a free pass and can obviously not be as bad as the big companies. Big companies are also made of people, and all people have the potential to do fucking terrible things. Indie or not.

The game journalist have written unfairly good reviews of games since E.T., the reasons why they do that are not that important.

[(int) magicMissile]

The game journalist have written unfairly good reviews of games since E.T., the reasons why they do that are not that important.

Yes, they are.

If their opinion is different to mine, that is acceptable. If their opinion is different to mine because they've been intimately involved with the fingers that wrote the code for the game, that is not acceptable.

[penguinofhonor]

@greatorder

I'd also appreciate it if the popcorn people would refrain, forever, from making posts like that in any thread.  It further sours the atmosphere and makes moderating the forum more difficult.

Also some of these posts really reek of people being argumentative because they want the thread closed. magicMissile is very obviously trying to have a good discussion about this.

[penguinofhonor]

Thing is the OP is also going a little aggressive (not to say nobody else is), which seems to generally indicate it's just a very flamey topic at this point in time.

People could still try to have a little self control.

[Graknorke]

EDIT: I also don't see how. "Other corrupt behaviour occurs so this is not that important." Is a valid defense. If anything, that is FURTHER damnation. And don't forget, journalists DO get called out on undue corporate influences. Doritogate and the person from giant bomb who got fired are examples. What is 'shocking' is that people somehow think that just because you are an indie dev you get a free pass and can obviously not be as bad as the big companies. Big companies are also made of people, and all people have the potential to do fucking terrible things. Indie or not.

The point is that the corruption is not news. If you're outraged now, why weren't you earlier?

[Frumple]

The above series of events is the only thing I care about in this whole mess and the people defending that behaviour is the very reason games journalism is not respected as real journalism.

No one I've noticed is actually defending the behavior. Everything I've seen so far is simple incredulity at the fact that people believe an incredibly minor scandal that isn't even a meaningful drop in the corruption bucket is something other than it is. Frankly, journalism itself, period, world over, has largely lost all tracery of "real" journalism, which has been functionally dead on the large scale of things for decades.

I'd be worried about turning tricks for good PR if I thought it was actually happening enough to meaningfully impact anything. Which I don't. If you're looking for the actual source of corruption in gaming media, you've got all those wonderful bribes -- from money, to free games, to special access to certain events, and so on -- that are outright industry standard.

S'considerably more strange that so few seem to say anything about youtube reviewers getting free and early access from game devs, gaming media in general having free and early access, the overt bribe that is media access to stuff like PAX or whatever's in vogue these days, and so on. Blatant, bald face bribes directly to reviewers -- self-styled journalists effectively getting outright paid, by the developers, to make reviews for games -- and pretty much no one says a single solitary thing about the outright ethical fuckup that is. That, more than anything, is why gaming media isn't "real" journalism. It's been a joke since the first time a magazine said "yes" when a company offered a free copy for review, however many decades ago that was.

Just imagine a reporter at cnn having sex with the boss of some start up company and then proceeding to write fluff pieces for that company, the backlash against cnn would be immense but here for some reason the opposite is true. It doesn't even matter if the product is bloody amazing, the journalistic piece will still be tainted and should have been written by another person.

No... I'm pretty sure no one's actually given a damn about print/TV media screwing clients and then writing good bits about them, which has no doubt happened plenty of times over the years. Honestly, I've yet to see a scandal of any sort meaningfully impact a major news venue. Think the worst dustup I can recall was that bit with phone tapping, which barely did anything of note. Modern news in general has become corrupt to the point most folks with sense ignore everything that comes out of it, for good reason, and whatever kerfluffles that do pop up regarding integrity blow over in days.

[(int) magicMissile]

Thing is the OP is also going a little aggressive (not to say nobody else is), which seems to generally indicate it's just a very flamey topic at this point in time.

I genuinely don't understand why people are saying I'm being aggressive. =/

The point is that the corruption is not news. If you're outraged now, why weren't you earlier?

It's obvious that people were angry before. Something like this doesn't spark off out of nowhere. There's been a palpable sense of anger towards "gaming journalists" for quite awhile now, and this was just the match that set off the powerkeg.

No... I'm pretty sure no one's actually given a damn about print/TV media screwing clients and then writing good bits about them, which has no doubt happened plenty of times over the years. Honestly, I've yet to see a scandal of any sort meaningfully impact a major news venue. Think the worst dustup I can recall was that bit with phone tapping, which barely did anything of note. Modern news in general has become corrupt to the point most folks with sense ignore everything that comes out of it, for good reason, and whatever kerfluffles that do pop up regarding integrity blow over in days.

Do you truly think that if someone presented unalienable evidence that Mr X (a major newspaper critic) had sex with Mrs Y (a major artist or whatever) and then wrote great things about her work, a shitstorm wouldn't kick up?

Please look at Reuters and understand that's what real journalism is. At the very least, the people involved would be in serious trouble with their respective unions.

[Sergarr]

A powderkeg of SJWs and 4channers?

[Frumple]

Do you truly think that if someone presented unalienable evidence that Mr X (a major newspaper critic) had sex with Mrs Y (a major artist or whatever) and then wrote great things about her work, a shitstorm wouldn't kick up?

A shitstorm would kick up, for a few days, and nothing of substantial effect would come of it. Just like what has happened with every other major scandal that's occurred in relation to a major news operation for the last ever.

And even after the pointless, ratings humping newsfrenzy that flew up over the issue, no one with sense would think it's happening enough to be worth worrying over. Scandal, yes, problem, no. Much more pervasive and sundry corruption issues infest media venues that aren't functionally built around bribery, to say nothing of gaming media.

[(int) magicMissile]

A powderkeg of SJWs and 4channers?

I don't know, man. Almost everyone on every site I've seen has had a good chunk of their userbase outraged about this. Reddit, 4chan, The Escapist. Christ, even Tumblr is enraged, and they're pretty much SJW central.

Do you truly think that if someone presented unalienable evidence that Mr X (a major newspaper critic) had sex with Mrs Y (a major artist or whatever) and then wrote great things about her work, a shitstorm wouldn't kick up?

A shitstorm would kick up, for a few days, and nothing of substantial effect would come of it. Just like what has happened with every other major scandal that's occurred in relation to a major news operation for the last ever.

And even after the pointless, ratings humping newsfrenzy that flew up over the issue, no one with sense would think it's happening enough to be worth worrying over. Scandal, yes, problem, no. Much more pervasive and sundry corruption issues infest media venues that aren't functionally built around bribery, to say nothing of gaming media.

Then instead of being apathetic, try to affect change. Instead of typing about how no one will care, go out there and type about why this stuff angers you (or doesn't, if it doesn't, just talk ABOUT it instead of around it).