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Author Topic: Military-based Fortress Defence  (Read 3412 times)

RocheLimit

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Re: Military-based Fortress Defence
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2014, 08:13:48 am »

Those two are wearing all steel: Mail, Breastplate, Greaves, Helm, Gauntlets, Boots, Shield, and used either silver maces or silver/steel morningstars.

pisskop

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Re: Military-based Fortress Defence
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2014, 08:16:37 am »

I prefer military to traps, but I make no qualms about a bridge.  The bridge is to avoid confrontation, to give time for my military to prepare.

I apparently spend a lot of resources pursuing things like logging, butchering, herding, hunting, and to a lesser extent, fishing.  I need topside access as well as cavern access to do those easily.  Or at least, I prefer access to both.  So I have an incentive to reclaim either.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 08:18:18 am by pisskop »
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bluephoenix

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Re: Military-based Fortress Defence
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2014, 09:17:14 am »

I usually use a military and a couple of traps in front of my main staircase.
I do use a gate to lock myself in if the siege looks overwhelming or I don't even have a military yet, however the gate is made of floodgates so that building destroyers are able to bash their way in.
Draw bridges feel like cheating to me.
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Foxite

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Re: Military-based Fortress Defence
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2014, 10:01:33 am »

I actually combine the two major ways of doing so; the bridge and the traps are the primary(and only) passive defense, and soldiers(and the civilians firing the ballistae) as the primary active defense, which I have dubbed "Offensive defensive". I also plan out the defense of my fortress very carefully, sticking a lot of time and thoughts into military organization, traps, and security.  I usually have them train every month, with a train order set to 4 or 6 minimum, depending on the squad size(I have it even so that they can always spar). I also like to set up many, many cage traps and when a siege is over, use the goblins for live training. And I have a "diplomatic agreement" with the elves - they send me live practice subjects every year! They also send me many items which I can sell to the humans and my parent civ. They also occasionally send surprise groups of trained elves to give me some better practice! Elves are actually quite nice, you know?
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 10:03:59 am by latias1290 »
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ragincajun

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Re: Military-based Fortress Defence
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2014, 01:01:00 pm »

At what point do you begin your military?  1-2 of the initial 7 or after 1-2 migrant waves?  I seem to find migration lacking in the new versions.
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pisskop

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Re: Military-based Fortress Defence
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2014, 01:05:54 pm »

At what point do you begin your military?  1-2 of the initial 7 or after 1-2 migrant waves?  I seem to find migration lacking in the new versions.
If I dont embark expecting trouble I will establish a squad for training as soon as I land, and just not activate them.  That way, they carry their weapons around at the least.  On most maps, I activate the military anywhere from the first fall to the second spring.
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Pisskop's Reblancing Mod - A C:DDA Mod to make life a little (lot) more brutal!
drealmerz7 - pk was supreme pick for traitor too I think, and because of how it all is and pk is he is just feeding into the trollfucking so well.
PKs DF Mod!

RocheLimit

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Re: Military-based Fortress Defence
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2014, 01:40:31 pm »

At what point do you begin your military?  1-2 of the initial 7 or after 1-2 migrant waves?  I seem to find migration lacking in the new versions.

When I do military embarks, I put aside two of my starting 7, and activate them when their weapons are made.  They are most vulnerable at this point, as they still don't know what end of a mace to bash with and will attack many creatures on sight.  While they may handle themselves with various animal people, trying to run down a giant tick with nothing but Novice-level in mace and no armor is just asking to the torn to shreds.

They are usually activated and sparring before spring is over.  By the time mid summer rolls around, they are lvl 3-5 in mace and have just donned their steel armor.  They usually hit macelord status by mid fall or early winter.

JRHaggs

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Re: Military-based Fortress Defence
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2014, 03:19:48 pm »

I use a drawbridge (sometimes two) to control the direction from which a siege can attack, but I never raise it.

My three melee squads and two marksdwarf squads are, at this point, sufficient to decimate any goblin siege. No undead yet, so maybe I'll be raising that bridge at some point.

I recently dug out a couple of trap hallways, but I haven't tunneled all the way to the outside because I want my dwarves to beat the shit out of goblins, not capture them.

So, yeah, for me? Military all the way. Traps seem... Elven.
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moz

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Re: Military-based Fortress Defence
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2014, 03:47:27 pm »

Military defense has an appeal for sure, but some things just get in the way of my enjoyment of it:
Trained melee squad outfit in steel armor are now practically immune to goblins, well that's no fun. Except!
Lashers shred through those steel armored melee units like butter, requiring that I also train a crossbow team to handle just them.
Crossbow team being super finnicky to manage bolts, therefore charging into combat to play at being macedwarves unless placed squarely behind fortifications.
Then the crossbow team behind fortifications is practically an invincible machine gun nest of death and negates the purpose of the melee dwarves.

Other issues:
I've yet to have a really successful sortie against an undead invasion with military. Steel clad dwarves getting their heads punched in by undead anything, then being raised and punching more heads in.
Occasional FB/spoiler combos involving webs and or particular material compositions negating military entirely.
FPS issues. Military work is just so pathing intensive. A fort with nothing but 50 equipped dwarves training brings me down to 30fps.
Picking up equipment overriding all other orders and being impossible to cancel even by forbidding the =Steel helmet= they are trying to pick up deep in the enemy formation to replace their -Steel Helmet- with.

I'm usually stuck between some combination of wanting to rely on the military for !FUN!, but feeling cheaty for using them in the situations that they are invincible in (ie non lasher goblins), but also knowing enough about their shortcomings to know that I can't rely on them entirely.
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RocheLimit

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Re: Military-based Fortress Defence
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2014, 05:49:01 pm »

Military defense has an appeal for sure, but some things just get in the way of my enjoyment of it:
Trained melee squad outfit in steel armor are now practically immune to goblins, well that's no fun. Except!
Lashers shred through those steel armored melee units like butter, requiring that I also train a crossbow team to handle just them.
Crossbow team being super finnicky to manage bolts, therefore charging into combat to play at being macedwarves unless placed squarely behind fortifications.
Then the crossbow team behind fortifications is practically an invincible machine gun nest of death and negates the purpose of the melee dwarves.

Other issues:
I've yet to have a really successful sortie against an undead invasion with military. Steel clad dwarves getting their heads punched in by undead anything, then being raised and punching more heads in.
Occasional FB/spoiler combos involving webs and or particular material compositions negating military entirely.
FPS issues. Military work is just so pathing intensive. A fort with nothing but 50 equipped dwarves training brings me down to 30fps.
Picking up equipment overriding all other orders and being impossible to cancel even by forbidding the =Steel helmet= they are trying to pick up deep in the enemy formation to replace their -Steel Helmet- with.

I'm usually stuck between some combination of wanting to rely on the military for !FUN!, but feeling cheaty for using them in the situations that they are invincible in (ie non lasher goblins), but also knowing enough about their shortcomings to know that I can't rely on them entirely.

For this, I recommend trying out the Fortress Defense mod.  Adds plenty of tough enemies, much tougher than whimpy goblins, and you can choose which races you want to install.  In my experience, its a bit buggy with flying mounts/units, but I think that's a plus: it means you HAVE to have a military to take the fight to the idiotic Nightwing squad leader who got himself stuck in a tree.  If you don't, you will be under siege constantly. 

Should note, this is for DF2012 (rather, I know it WORKS for DF2012).  I am not sure if fortress defense works on DF2014 or if a new one needs to be compiled.


Copy/Pasted from the readme that came with the mod:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

pisskop

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Re: Military-based Fortress Defence
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2014, 05:52:30 pm »

That isn't 40.xx approved :/
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Pisskop's Reblancing Mod - A C:DDA Mod to make life a little (lot) more brutal!
drealmerz7 - pk was supreme pick for traitor too I think, and because of how it all is and pk is he is just feeding into the trollfucking so well.
PKs DF Mod!

Splint

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Re: Military-based Fortress Defence
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2014, 06:01:09 pm »

I opt for a mix of low (we're talking less than 30 most often low, sometimes less than 20) numbers of traps, primarily to dissuade kidnappers, and a moderately sized and very well trained militia, and a drawbridge to deal with things. The vast majority of threats end up meeting the military commander's squad first and nothing else.

The drawbridge is mainly insurance (as the enemy still isn't too bright and they'll prefer to avoid hauling themselves over barricades if they can help in my experiences thus far,) in the event a battle goes poorly, or to allow the militia to muster en masse when numbers are needed.

Traps are generally one row deep, maybe two if I think I need it and only at choke points and corners, again, mainly to kill snatchers rather than be a threat to most intruders unless they come from behind the entrance, in which case it's their own fault. Regardless though, the militia ends up doing the vast majority of the work, or all of it in cases where I don't bother with traps due to resources/laziness.

Treefingers

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Re: Military-based Fortress Defence
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2014, 11:26:48 pm »

I'm using a slower computer, so I have my pop cap set at 40. I can't rely on military since they would also be my skilled workers, and I can't bear losing any if I don't have to. They are all trained and armed, however. Invaders might not get past the traps, but violent fun is perfectly capable of starting inside the fort. I also try to get a hold of better guard animals ASAP, giant cats or something from the caverns usually.
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Foxite

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Re: Military-based Fortress Defence
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2014, 04:44:54 am »

At what point do you begin your military?  1-2 of the initial 7 or after 1-2 migrant waves?  I seem to find migration lacking in the new versions.
I usually start a military just before I expect the next migrant wave to exceed my population over 80. So that I will be ready when I get the chances of goblins coming.
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The best way to demonstrate it to him is take a save of 40 year old fortress with 150 dwarves in it on a good sized embark with a volcano that just breached the circus and install it on his gaming rig and watch it bring his rig to its knees.

Aslandus

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Re: Military-based Fortress Defence
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2014, 07:37:28 am »

At what point do you begin your military?  1-2 of the initial 7 or after 1-2 migrant waves?  I seem to find migration lacking in the new versions.
I usually start a military just before I expect the next migrant wave to exceed my population over 80. So that I will be ready when I get the chances of goblins coming.
I tried doing that once, but my production is too fast because I flipping love barrels so the goblins siege me before I've set up a military.... It's very Fun
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