Topic: Initial Naga discussion (Read 26382 times)

ElenaRoan · « **Reply #45 on:** September 05, 2014, 06:51:28 am »

I'm going to be watching this with interest.

Eko · « **Reply #46 on:** September 08, 2014, 06:14:57 pm »

Back home.

I started working again on the creature/entity raws in an effort to get them spawning correctly. I can get them to generate a population on the map (as shown by exporting and checking the details text file that is generated), and of course, getting their legends and civs generated. What I can't do yet is start a game with them. I thought the only thing that *really* needed to be in there was the CIV_CONTROLLABLE token, which of course, they have in there. I'm calling on people who have modding experience to take a look for something I'm missing. I've been over the two files many times in comparison to working ones, and with the exception of the body tokens, can't find anything in these that aren't in other, working ones.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

- Creature

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

- entity

I'm sure this is something simple, but once I get this, I can start working on getting the balance right.

Not many differences between the last time I put them up and now. Fixed most things that Meph brought up, and I've put in the initial interaction for the speed change. Other than that, I've just been adding and subtracting all sorts of tags and tokens in an attempt to narrow down the source of the issue.

I've come up with another major scripting idea that I want to do, but will require significant development. That's five now, if anyone's been counting. I've made the framework for the script, but I'm seeing issues even now, so I'll shelve that too. Will be really cool if it works though.

edit: More new ideas - have been thinking about tinkering more with the coral production cycle and possibly making a craftsdwarf-ish coral and shell shaper who could create essential items using either material. Perhaps a polish/encrust/detail mechanic as well for making expensive items for nobles. I'd REALLY like to stay away from platinum-statue stacked noble rooms if possible, and add something else that can make a room look not only detailed and gorgeous (sans metal) but also very ocean/water friendly.

Another idea is a spin on the scalp/prisoner collection of the succubi/orc/warlocks. I'd like to incorporate that somehow, I really do see Naga as bloodthirsty raiders, who would be more militant and angry. I'm not sure what I can do with the idea that is unique though. I'm thinking about making the 'tokens' or tools that are required to build each temple and use most of the temple functions partially from dead things. I was also thinking about standards. Standards would be quivers that would affect melee units, giving then bonuses. I think a standard made out of dwarven skin would give a toughness bonus, elven skin a dexterity bonus... etc. I couldn't make a different bonus for each type of creature though, so I'd like to find a nice middle ground between variety and usefulness. Any input would be helpful.

Thanks for all the input everyone.

slay_mithos · « **Reply #47 on:** September 08, 2014, 07:06:04 pm »

Just stating the obvious, but did you double check every available playable civ's race?

I know it might sound like a dumb thing to ask, but there seem to be so many people that don't know about that function on the world map.

Eko · « **Reply #48 on:** September 08, 2014, 07:22:21 pm »

Yes. I regularly gen worlds with 2-3 races in them, so I've used that several times.

What bothers me is that I gen the world, and I get this as the top lines in the export:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But I get this for the "Neighbors" section:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Note the lack of Naga on the neighbors screen. Paging one over gives me a list of 7 kobold civs to play as. No Naga.

slay_mithos · « **Reply #49 on:** September 08, 2014, 07:26:49 pm »

Just as a test, do try to generate a world with no other playable civ, to see what the screen just after neighbours says.

smakemupagus · « **Reply #50 on:** September 08, 2014, 07:38:20 pm »

Maybe try increasing the biome support to at least 4 especially on their starting biome?

Eko · « **Reply #51 on:** September 08, 2014, 07:42:52 pm »

Quote from: slay_mithos on September 08, 2014, 07:26:49 pm

Just as a test, do try to generate a world with no other playable civ, to see what the screen just after neighbours says.

Can't, just ends up in constant rejections. World won't gen.

Quote from: smakemupagus on September 08, 2014, 07:38:20 pm

Maybe try increasing the biome support to at least 4 especially on their starting biome?

Just tried, no difference.

Thanks for the suggestions! Hopefully I'll get it sooner or later.

slay_mithos · « **Reply #52 on:** September 08, 2014, 08:28:45 pm »

I quickly manually compared it to the humans and succubus, and I can't seem to find what could be wrong.
Just a thing that's bugging me, naga_civ for the creature, and naga for the entity, shouldn't it be the other way around?

Without the raws, I would say that you tried to make it playable without making it a proper civ.
I mean, if it appears as a population in legends, it means they exist as creatures, but if they don't exist as a civilization (no neighbours, can't gen with only them playable), it should mean that they fail to create the actual civilization and are treated more or less like glorified animals.

That's only my guess, based on what we have, but I can't find why it would be the case, as the raws seem fine (I can only understand the basics of the raws).

Is there any way to check if the "entity" file is actually correctly loaded?

Baffler · « **Reply #53 on:** September 08, 2014, 08:32:14 pm »

~~You're missing the [OBJECT:ENTITY] token up at the top of the page. It should be right below the name at the very top.~~

Wait, no. It's just confused because there's no space between it and YES_CIV_ACTIVE_NAGA.

smakemupagus · « **Reply #54 on:** September 08, 2014, 08:58:40 pm »

Hmm. Any chance you accidentally still have the old unmodded entity in folder overwriting it or something? Or that GUI is somehow toggling off you Civ controllable token?

slay_mithos · « **Reply #55 on:** September 08, 2014, 09:33:55 pm »

Nah, the controllable token can't be everything, because it would still appear as a neighbour civ.
The overwrite, on the other hand, sound really plausible.

snowhusky5 · « **Reply #56 on:** September 08, 2014, 09:37:27 pm »

Looks like a mystery to me

A few comments - it seems like one caste lays eggs, but the race also has children ([child:1][baby:1], if that's what that means). Better make sure that they don't end up eating their own eggs $:-\$

Also, Myrmidons are spelled wrong in the code (myrmidions), although correctly in the description, so it doesn't really matter.

Meph · « **Reply #57 on:** September 08, 2014, 11:45:22 pm »

I am sure that I mentioned at some point that DF doesnt like egg laying civs, and suggested a custom egg system, with a clutch of fake eggs spawned in water that hatch tadpoles or something similar.

The civ spawns fine, once you remove these lines from the creature:

Code: [Select]

      LAYS_EGGS
         EGG_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:EGGSHELL:SOLID
         EGG_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:EGG_WHITE:LIQUID
         EGG_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:EGG_YOLK:LIQUID
         EGG_SIZE:50
         CLUTCH_SIZE:10:25

(I think lays_eggs alone is responsible)

PS: Somehow I always see Naga as good, not evil. More like... fancy magical mermaid people, with harps and glittery gems and soothing music. Obviously thats just personal opinion, you continue with your evil raiding Naga.

slay_mithos · « **Reply #58 on:** September 09, 2014, 12:01:38 am »

It really depends on what you take as your inspiration.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I was also under the impression that the tales from greece depicted them as enemies of men (but I don't know too much about that mythology, sadly).

I think he wanted to try the normal egg way, and then forgot about your post while doing the whole lot of other things needed to make this race work.

Meph · « **Reply #59 on:** September 09, 2014, 12:10:27 am »

I didnt take any as inspiration, Nagas are not really common in fantasy. It was more the water/coral/harp/magic vibe, usually magical water-thingies are good, like Merfolk or Sprites or Nymphs.

Its just that MDF has evil undead Warlocks, evil demonic Succubi, warmongering Orcs, stealing Kobolds, sociopathic Dwarves, neutral trading Humans... only Gnomes are good-aligned. And there are still so many evil races left, Automatons, Goblins, Drow and the insects probably wont be the nicest either. Except I would make them so. ^^

Edit: Actually, after spending some thought on it: I am influenced by Heros of Might and Magic in that regard.

Edit2: Wasnt sure which style you prefer, or if none of them fit... but if you want them, feel free.

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Author Topic: Initial Naga discussion (Read 26382 times)

ElenaRoan

Re: Initial Naga discussion

Eko

Re: Initial Naga discussion

slay_mithos

Re: Initial Naga discussion

Eko

Re: Initial Naga discussion

slay_mithos

Re: Initial Naga discussion

smakemupagus

Re: Initial Naga discussion

Eko

Re: Initial Naga discussion

slay_mithos

Re: Initial Naga discussion

Baffler

Re: Initial Naga discussion

smakemupagus

Re: Initial Naga discussion

slay_mithos

Re: Initial Naga discussion

snowhusky5

Re: Initial Naga discussion

Meph

Re: Initial Naga discussion

slay_mithos

Re: Initial Naga discussion

Meph

Re: Initial Naga discussion