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[Saiko Kila]

I do have sand, but found out that I could use a source closer to the workshops and main staircase. Only problem is that it's an aquifer. I don't deal much with aquifers, if at all, in this fort I found aquifer long after hitting magma sea and adamantine. Here's the picture:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Blue is damp stone (actually soil) border, red is (more or less accurate) aquifer proper border, and yellow is a border of sand pillars/walls. There are two levels of aquifer.

I'm asking what would be the possible or best method to get to that sand, without flooding the fortress in the process. I was thinking:

1. Bringing it down a few levels to create a sand pillar. That would make 8 sand bearing tiles. I would use cave in for that, by digging from below. But won't the pillar retain it's aquifer status?

2. Dig some dump tiles next to a sand tile, and use grates to let water fall somewhere else. Grates don't prevent dwarves from using sand bearing tiles which have their sand from nearby pillars, but I'm not sure how fast the aquifer is. Alternatively leave the sand pillar free, hanging from a support (there is a floor z-level above), surrounded by grates or hatches. Maybe that would make water fall faster.

3. Dig some dump tiles next to a sand tile, but pump water out instead, hoping that temporal flooding won't cause much interruption.

The best would be smoothing the sand somehow, but that's probably not possible. What is possible?

[Gigaz]

Aquifers can not only flood your fortress, they can also absorb infinite amounts of water.

One solution would be to have a powered pump installed over one aquifer tile that pumps the water into the aquifer on it's back side. The dwarfs can then safely access the pumped out tile to collect sand.

[Saiko Kila]

Aquifers can not only flood your fortress, they can also absorb infinite amounts of water.

One solution would be to have a powered pump installed over one aquifer tile that pumps the water into the aquifer on it's back side. The dwarfs can then safely access the pumped out tile to collect sand.

Is the rate of absorption enough to, for example, take water from four tiles into one tile, or it's better to have as many absorbers as emitters?

[Tacomagic]

Absorption rate is nearly infinite so far as I know, only restricted by the speed at which water can flow or be pumped.  I've successfully drained 2 sources into a single aquifer tile via direct pumping, so I would bet you could do 3 or even 4 with the correct setup.  In fact, during double slit of multiple aquifer levels, you often have 3 souces draining into one tile, so I'd bet 4 would work just as well.  However it's an untennable solution as you can take a heafty FPS hit if you leave it draining.

My suggestion would be to do a variation of a double-slit method that utilizes a ring of drains rather than two slits.  Once the drains are in place, wall off the area using those drains.  Sand can be collected from the central tile area.

If you want a more in-depth workthrough on how I'd do that, let me know and I'll work on producing such.

[Gigaz]

I'm not entirely sure but I think sand that is collected from a floor tile can leave that tile depleted, so that only sand walls are an infinite source of sand.

[Absentia]

I'm not entirely sure but I think sand that is collected from a floor tile can leave that tile depleted, so that only sand walls are an infinite source of sand.

I don't think this is accurate, unless it's a change in version .40. I haven't done a major glass industry since DF2012, but there was no depletion of a single-tile sand zone after several years of near-constant gathering.

I mean, what would the tile become after it was depleted? Sand is a base soil layer.

[Saiko Kila]

Absorption rate is nearly infinite so far as I know, only restricted by the speed at which water can flow or be pumped.  I've successfully drained 2 sources into a single aquifer tile via direct pumping, so I would bet you could do 3 or even 4 with the correct setup.  In fact, during double slit of multiple aquifer levels, you often have 3 souces draining into one tile, so I'd bet 4 would work just as well.  However it's an untennable solution as you can take a heafty FPS hit if you leave it draining.

Well then that's certainly something I want to avoid. My FPS already drops below 10 sometimes...

My suggestion would be to do a variation of a double-slit method that utilizes a ring of drains rather than two slits.  Once the drains are in place, wall off the area using those drains.  Sand can be collected from the central tile area.

If you want a more in-depth workthrough on how I'd do that, let me know and I'll work on producing such.

And would that be possible/feasible if I want to have all tiles around that wall accessible, like this?

Code: [Select]

#####
#...#
#.s.#
#...#
##.##

.=floor, #=wall, s=sand wall
That's 5x5 area to work on, so I'm not sure it is worth the effort.

I'm not entirely sure but I think sand that is collected from a floor tile can leave that tile depleted, so that only sand walls are an infinite source of sand.

I suppose you mean growth of fungus or grass? Yes, although it can be prevented (for example by building a paved road) or the tile repaired (for example by building and deconstructing a floor) I prefer walls. One wall can give sand to 8 tiles, as opposed to sand floor, which can give sand to 9 tiles (less crawling) but the pillar is never "deactivated" by grass, always has the correct look and I hate paved roads.

[Tacomagic]

Absorption rate is nearly infinite so far as I know, only restricted by the speed at which water can flow or be pumped.  I've successfully drained 2 sources into a single aquifer tile via direct pumping, so I would bet you could do 3 or even 4 with the correct setup.  In fact, during double slit of multiple aquifer levels, you often have 3 souces draining into one tile, so I'd bet 4 would work just as well.  However it's an untennable solution as you can take a heafty FPS hit if you leave it draining.

Well then that's certainly something I want to avoid. My FPS already drops below 10 sometimes...

My suggestion would be to do a variation of a double-slit method that utilizes a ring of drains rather than two slits.  Once the drains are in place, wall off the area using those drains.  Sand can be collected from the central tile area.

If you want a more in-depth workthrough on how I'd do that, let me know and I'll work on producing such.

And would that be possible/feasible if I want to have all tiles around that wall accessible, like this?

Code: [Select]

#####
#...#
#.s.#
#...#
##.##

.=floor, #=wall, s=sand wall
That's 5x5 area to work on, so I'm not sure it is worth the effort.

I'm not entirely sure but I think sand that is collected from a floor tile can leave that tile depleted, so that only sand walls are an infinite source of sand.

I suppose you mean growth of fungus or grass? Yes, although it can be prevented (for example by building a paved road) or the tile repaired (for example by building and deconstructing a floor) I prefer walls. One wall can give sand to 8 tiles, as opposed to sand floor, which can give sand to 9 tiles (less crawling) but the pillar is never "deactivated" by grass, always has the correct look and I hate paved roads.

You'll need to do it at least 5x6 in order to accomidate the pump when you set up your drains.  If you want to keep it square, then you'll need 6x6.

Basically you start with this:

Code: [Select]

######
#X##X#
#X##X#
######
#=natural wall, X=up/down stairs
as per the normal 2 slit multiple z-level method.  Then, digging and building stairs 1 at a time, you convert it to this:

Code: [Select]

######
#XXXX#
#X..X#
#XXXX#
######
#=natural wall, X=up/down stairs, .=floor

Then work on walling it off like so:

Code: [Select]

########
#██████#
#█XXXX█#
#█X..X█#
#█XXXX█#
#██████#
########
#=natural wall, X=up/down stairs, .=floor, █ = constructed wall
You'd have to do some floor renovation of some kind to keep it weed free, but it would work.  You could use a pillar of wall in the middle instead, but that would come with an FPS hit since the flow from the pillar into the surrounding drains will be calculated every frame.

[Solon64]

I'm not entirely sure but I think sand that is collected from a floor tile can leave that tile depleted, so that only sand walls are an infinite source of sand.

I don't believe that's true.  Fairly certain that sand and clay sources are infinite.  Quantum sand is a thing in Dwarf Fortress.

[Saiko Kila]

You'll need to do it at least 5x6 in order to accomidate the pump when you set up your drains.  If you want to keep it square, then you'll need 6x6.

Basically you start with this:

Code: [Select]

######
#X##X#
#X##X#
######
#=natural wall, X=up/down stairs
as per the normal 2 slit multiple z-level method.  Then, digging and building stairs 1 at a time, you convert it to this:

Code: [Select]

######
#XXXX#
#X..X#
#XXXX#
######
#=natural wall, X=up/down stairs, .=floor

Then work on walling it off like so:

Code: [Select]

########
#██████#
#█XXXX█#
#█X..X█#
#█XXXX█#
#██████#
########
#=natural wall, X=up/down stairs, .=floor, █ = constructed wall
You'd have to do some floor renovation of some kind to keep it weed free, but it would work.  You could use a pillar of wall in the middle instead, but that would come with an FPS hit since the flow from the pillar into the surrounding drains will be calculated every frame.

Thank you, I'll do just that. Also I'll probably savescum to compare the pillar with the sand floor for efficiency, though I can live with one paved road title...

[Loci]

Aquifers do not generate water diagonally. If you surround your pillar with walls in the four cardinal directions your dwarves should still be able to access the pillar diagonally.

Code: [Select]

.....
..█..
.█S█.
..█..
.....
S=sand pillar, .=floor, █ = constructed wall

[jcochran]

All you need is a sand floor optionally covered with a grate to prevent plant growth.
What I'd suggest is to dig out what you need and build walls to block off the aquifer so the area doesn't get flooded. After that, you'll have a damp sand floor so you can gather as much sand as you want, and won't need to have any pumps running.

[Tacomagic]

Aquifers do not generate water diagonally. If you surround your pillar with walls in the four cardinal directions your dwarves should still be able to access the pillar diagonally.

Code: [Select]

.....
..█..
.█S█.
..█..
.....
S=sand pillar, .=floor, █ = constructed wall

Totally didn't think of that.  This is a good idea, provided sand walls work diagonally.  Never actually tried diagonal sand/clay wall collecting.

Also, I was working quick when designing my dig and forgot to omit the diagonal walls, so you can skip those in favor of this:

Code: [Select]

########
##████##
#█XXXX█#
#█X..X█#
#█XXXX█#
##████##
########
Along with that, you could cut down on a LOT of the build and shoot for a single tile segregated on the diagonal:

Code: [Select]

########
##█#####
#█X█#█##
#█X.█X█#
##██#█##
It's a little more planning of your steps, but less overall dwarf labor than a full penetration and wall-off with a central pillar.  Pretty ugly, but efficient and gives you an open space that isn't on a stairway for collection.

Unfortunately it prevents penetration through the next level, but since you have cavern access, I figured that isn't a big deal.

[Bumber]

The simplest way to clear an aquifer is from below. Since you've already got access to the underside, you should construct an off-map drain (via cavern or smoothed fortification edge tile) and clear the aquifer tiles with up/down stairs (this removes their aquifer properties.)

Code: [Select]

#######
#XXXXX#
#XXXXX#
#XX.XX#
#XXXXX#
#XXXXX#
#######
Turning the pillar into a floor stops it from being an aquifer.

Code: [Select]

#######
#█████#
#█XXX█#
#█X.X█#
#█XXX█#
#█████#
#######
Now wall off the sides. (These may require remove up stair/ramp designation first. I don't recall if it's necessary.) You can wall/floor over any of those stairs.

If you drained to the caverns you can use a floor grate or just floor it off when you're done.

Spoiler: Smaller version, fewer places to stand: (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

#######
###X###
##XXX##
#XX.XX#
##XXX##
###X###
#######


Code: [Select]

#######
###█###
##█>█##
#█+.+█#
##█+█##
###█###
#######
In this version I replaced one staircase with an up staircase and floored over the other three. IDK if the up stair actually prevents access from fliers below, so the drain should be sealed off elsewhere.

[Panando]

Everyone is overcomplicating this. You can gather sand from a floor or staircase. If you do standard twinslit to get through there should be a natural sand floor or staircase remaining. If you went around, then punch a staircase through from below and gather sand from the staircase.