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[Meph]

No, trolls cant be armored, neither can they in MDF. Its Ogres I use, not those puny trolls. (Because vanilla DF has trolls as goblin pets, not kobold pets. I am surprised to see them used here) But 16 seems a bit low, considering that a cow costs about 150.

[Urist McVoyager]

Right, d'oy. And yeah, I was thinking of the value being up in the hundreds. At least two hundred, given the usefulness of trolls as weapons.

[Urist McVoyager]

This all animal run is going better. I grabbed a bunch of yaks for slaughter, armed a squad of three with swords and leggings, and ran into a human tribe down in the cave. Things got fun when a Troll killed a human, gained a name, and killed a stray dog, which lead to the squad of three attacking and killing said troll. We've found water in the cavern, so now we just have to move down there and turtle up for a while.

[Lagotrope]

So, I did end up getting into KC a fair bit, and I've ran a couple forts that went/are going past 8+ years. One thing I've noticed though, and this might have just been poor luck, is that no one is having any kids. It seems like kobolds can become lovers, but not once have I had a marriage or offspring - has there been any confirmation of recent KC versions having offspring?

Granted, I lowered the pop cap (not strict cap, which was left at 220) to 20 on my second largish fort, which is going on year 8 and only has 3 pairs of lovers.

[HelloLion]

No, trolls cant be armored, neither can they in MDF. Its Ogres I use, not those puny trolls. (Because vanilla DF has trolls as goblin pets, not kobold pets. I am surprised to see them used here) But 16 seems a bit low, considering that a cow costs about 150.

I actually think cows are overpriced. I am considering an update to this mod that will overhaul agriculture and would expand livestock significantly. I don't want to over complicate things, but considering how important farming is to Kobolds I feel like it would be nice to be able to make decisions about what kind of livestock you're buying. Do you want a meat cow, a dairy cow, or a cow that can do both decently well and costs a bit more than the other two? that sort of thing. Anyway, 16 is perhaps a bit low, but it's hard to make effective use of trolls without getting a decent sized population of them. You have to both breed and train them, after all, to really have an effective resource. Buying two trolls at the onset won't help you much. I want the cost of trolls to be such that having 20 of them is virtually impossible, but it's reasonable to embark with 4-6 of them, if you're willing to limit your other livestock purchases.

Right, d'oy. And yeah, I was thinking of the value being up in the hundreds. At least two hundred, given the usefulness of trolls as weapons.

See my reply to Meph, above.

This all animal run is going better. I grabbed a bunch of yaks for slaughter, armed a squad of three with swords and leggings, and ran into a human tribe down in the cave. Things got fun when a Troll killed a human, gained a name, and killed a stray dog, which lead to the squad of three attacking and killing said troll. We've found water in the cavern, so now we just have to move down there and turtle up for a while.

Sounds great! Is this with ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE? I am trying to successfully find a cave with that turned on but I keep having too much !FUN! (and I haven't had much time to play).

So, I did end up getting into KC a fair bit, and I've ran a couple forts that went/are going past 8+ years. One thing I've noticed though, and this might have just been poor luck, is that no one is having any kids. It seems like kobolds can become lovers, but not once have I had a marriage or offspring - has there been any confirmation of recent KC versions having offspring?

Granted, I lowered the pop cap (not strict cap, which was left at 220) to 20 on my second largish fort, which is going on year 8 and only has 3 pairs of lovers.

I cannot confirm or deny whether Kobolds are breeding. Every time I get a camp running either I update the raws or I get a dwarven siege or something. I will look into the matter.

On a side note, how the eff do you have camps going for 8+ years!?

[Lagotrope]

I cannot confirm or deny whether Kobolds are breeding. Every time I get a camp running either I update the raws or I get a dwarven siege or something. I will look into the matter.

On a side note, how the eff do you have camps going for 8+ years!?

I basically cheesed it with cage traps. They still work, they're still overpowered. You just make a closed off tunnel the enemy has to go through (either tunneling a single entrance, or as I do, make a wood wall perimeter with a hallway entrance, and sieges walk right into it.

It sucks the !!FUN!! right out of kobold camp, and much of the spirit too, but I did want to test a lengthier camp to see how it went, and discover issues like lack of marriage.

That, and also another apparent issue in that my kobolds seemed to refuse to put on new leather ankle bands after the original footwear decayed into nothing. They can't seem to make regular shoes, either. I had one or two getting dangerously close to going berserk or something because, despite legendary meals and decent quarters/other stuff, "Has been disturbed by flies" and "Has been embarrassed by getting caught without shoes (x16)" was just too much. With said cage traps and a highly prolific food market, it seemed like my kobolds had nothing to do but brutally mock each other for lack of shoes without shoes themselves.

If that fort was going to fall, it wasn't going to be from a powerful dwarven siege, it was going to be because of kobolds going insane from lack of shoes.

Another discovery is that prepared foods are an amazingly lucrative market (or rather, extremely lucrative compared to the bold's other markets). At least 95% of my created wealth (1.5 million after 10 years when I retired it) was created by a small team of legendary cooks. Doesn't really need to be changed, I don't think, it just does make a kobold camp far more wealthier than it has business being. With this stuff, though, I was able to purchase steel equipment from my kobold civilization - this is probably not ideal since this implies they have some kind of metalworking department at home, but trying to fix that without breaking other stuff is probably pretty tough. Maybe. If it were fixed/changed though, it'd be harder to stop goblins from trading, at the least, good shields/weapons, since those are one size fits all. Anyway, once it was said and done, 5 (well trained) kobolds were enough to trash an elvish ambush of 5-10. I don't know how well they would have done against a dwarven siege; probably not that well, but I haven't had a chance to test it out.

And lastly, adventure mode seems interesting - I can actually talk to people and kobolds, kobolds seem to have shops (I'm figuring cities for kobolds are still in) and it generally works way better than I expected it to, kobolds and all. I mean, I still die from a stiff breeze, but that's how a kobold do. That, and I also could not equip a leather ankle band, nor a steel cap, which I found in my retired fort. I didn't find a steel shinguard to try on, but I didn't look long either, as wandering around a player made fort makes for a terribly laggy experience.

[Urist McVoyager]

Kobolds steal, and a successful kobold camp launches ambushes against other civs. It's entirely possible what you see as a metalworks back home is just the take from many successful kobold raiding parties. Maybe there's a Dwarven trade road passing within spitting distance of your home civ, and they robbed the caravans for that steel? Or better yet, if the steel stuff is actually kobold sized, maybe the goblins were involved and traded that stuff after reworking it. We all know how insanely OP Goblins can be on the world map, surely when their raids were over they took what they could home with them and smelted it back down to bars to make stuff.

[Lagotrope]

Kobolds steal, and a successful kobold camp launches ambushes against other civs. It's entirely possible what you see as a metalworks back home is just the take from many successful kobold raiding parties. Maybe there's a Dwarven trade road passing within spitting distance of your home civ, and they robbed the caravans for that steel? Or better yet, if the steel stuff is actually kobold sized, maybe the goblins were involved and traded that stuff after reworking it. We all know how insanely OP Goblins can be on the world map, surely when their raids were over they took what they could home with them and smelted it back down to bars to make stuff.

Yeah it would have to be the latter; goblins (and dwarves and humans and elves for that matter) all make gear that don't fit kobolds, so any raiding parties would just get non-fitting stuff. Could be seen as kobolds giving stuff to the goblins to rework into kobold type stuff, but it's a stretch since it would get back into home civ hands before getting to be traded; as goblin caravans themselves only deal with large unfitting things.

I assume you're talking about plausible explanations and not the game itself; because the game itself is, unless there was a serious change I'm unaware of that is strangely implemented, a civilization cannot make gear to fit another civilization's mismatched species.

[Urist McVoyager]

Of course. Between current engine limitations and the whims of Toady, a lot of questions are unanswerable by the game without delving into bugs and the like. So for us players it's important to be able to come up with our own answers for things like this until Toady turns his eyes towards a solid explanation through the game mechanics. In this case, it's goblin middle-men getting involved at some point.

[Urist McVoyager]

Lessons learned: Caverns are hit or miss, and should be avoided until you're armed, armored, and trained well enough to use them. With a population higher than seven so you can survive a few casualties. And know how to use your trolls so they don't go insane and trash the place.

[Urist McVoyager]

Nevermind on the trolls. I just ran into another similar situation, and it turns out they're wild trolls I'm dealing with. Joy. Lost an axebold/tree cutter who was unarmed thanks to me not having another chopper to give him for battle. But I also got some migrants right after that battle, so his loss won't hurt as much.

And I caught a bug: When you set the Bushcraft shop to make bone choppers, you get a random assortment of weapons instead of choppers. If you're lucky, you'll get one or two choppers, but the first time I set one to be built, I wound up with everything but a chopper.

[Baffler]

Is the kiln supposed to be unusable? Pottery seems like a pretty sensible direction for kobolds to go, and pottery and glazing are available jobs, but they can't build them because they can't build with stone or metals.

[Meph]

Is the kiln supposed to be unusable? Pottery seems like a pretty sensible direction for kobolds to go, and pottery and glazing are available jobs, but they can't build them because they can't build with stone or metals.

In my version of Kobold Mode I allowed them to mine metal ore, but not rock. That leads to veins you can mine, which might be connected to veins below it, leading you to the caverns. But I never made it all the way down to the magma lake with this. But at least they managed to get metals.

Another solution to get fire-proof building materials is making blocks from bone.

[Urist McVoyager]

We can trade with goblins, and they can still do things like masonry. While it takes luck, I'm sure we can find fireproof blocks.

[milo christiansen]

About bone blocks: Rubble has an addon ("User/Bonecarver") that allows you to make bone blocks, three kinds actually. The first kind is made from the actual bone material, this is cool as then you can have "goblin bone blocks" and the like, but bad as they cannot be stockpiled. The second kind is made from a stone named "bone", and the third is made from a similar stone that is fire proof called
"treated bone", both of these can be stockpiled.