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Author Topic: How to stop bites from freezing entire body, when someone bites the [TAIL]?.  (Read 2076 times)

clownwolf

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How to stop bites from freezing entire body, when someone bites the [TAIL]?.
« on: August 24, 2014, 12:37:26 am »
I added a tail to a standard humanoid body, for my Aardvark Men. Everything is fine, they can dig, chop, fight, build and craft. So I have no problems in regards to body functions.

Then I came across this scenario:

I had two of my creatures fighting in the Arena. Every skill is at competent level. Aardvark Man 1 had both arms and one leg chopped off. Aardvark Man 2 is unscathed.

Then it happened. The almost limbless Aardvark Man 1 bites Aardvark Man 2 in the tail. This somehow paralyzed AM#2 and he was treated by the game as though he was passed out. AM#1 got 2 pages worth of hits ALL on the head, eventually smashing it.

What should I change to prevent this? Should I just remove the tail, and just set it up as a joint-like thing such as shoulders and elbows?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*also note that I realized that I accidentally added extra aardvark attacks on my aardvark man (he bites the head when the mouth should be latched on the tail, he also scratches and grabs w/o arms), I removed the extra attacks already.

EDIT: I just re-read the log above, and it says that AM#1 grabbed AM#2 with his right upper leg. HE GRABBED HIM WITH HIS BLOODY STUMP? Is this an in-game bug or did I just create one by accident? It also said *her instead of him  >:(

EDIT 2: Actually these were aardvark women that were fighting. The arena just calls them by their creature name instead of caste name.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 02:08:06 pm by clownwolf »
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StagnantSoul

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Re: How to stop bites from paralyzing entire body, when someone bites the [TAIL]?.
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2014, 02:04:33 am »
I can't figure out the caste name problem either. The one who passed out passed out from pain, does your syndrome involve the pain effect? That's probably it. Unless they have [NOPAIN] (which would explain why they kept fighting with missing limbs). Another possibility is over exertion. That can hit fast in arena. Then, the last possibility is the drowsiness effect of a syndrome. It could be there, causing the aardvark to pass out after a few seconds. As for the bloody stump grip, they most likely cut off the lower leg, and they gripped with the upper leg.
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StagnantSoul

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Re: How to stop bites from paralyzing entire body, when someone bites the [TAIL]?.
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2014, 02:06:05 am »
Also, unless you remove the head from your aardvark men, they'll always be targeted for headshots when they're passed out.
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Quote from: Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum
I threw night creature blood into a night creature's heart and she pulled it out and bled to death.
Quote from: Eric Blank
Places to jibber madly at each other, got it
Quote from: NJW2000
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smakemupagus

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Re: How to stop bites from paralyzing entire body, when someone bites the [TAIL]?.
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2014, 02:50:59 am »
Quote from: StagnantSoul on August 24, 2014, 02:04:33 am
caste name problem

in fortress mode the CASTE_NAME should appear properly, but in arena mode, I believe there is a known bug/feature that the caste name isn't used everywhere. 
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=145
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StagnantSoul

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Re: How to stop bites from paralyzing entire body, when someone bites the [TAIL]?.
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2014, 03:13:08 am »
Mine appear wrong in arena and adventurer. Fortress is fine.
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Quote from: Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum
I threw night creature blood into a night creature's heart and she pulled it out and bled to death.
Quote from: Eric Blank
Places to jibber madly at each other, got it
Quote from: NJW2000
If any of them are made of fire, throw stuff, run, and think non-flammable thoughts.

clownwolf

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Re: How to stop bites from paralyzing entire body, when someone bites the [TAIL]?.
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2014, 03:17:44 am »
Quote from: StagnantSoul on August 24, 2014, 02:06:05 am
Also, unless you remove the head from your aardvark men, they'll always be targeted for headshots when they're passed out.

Aardvark Man 2 didn't pass out. He was conscious the entire time. The problem only appears when the tail is bitten and latched on. The tail somehow prevents body movement when the humanoid can't break the tooth's grip, which shouldn't happen.

I am also still bothered by the fact that the Aardvark Man 1 in that particular fight managed to 'grab' using his bloody stump. I only added nails to the toes and fingers, so upper legs shouldn't have been used for wrestling grabs.
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Minnakht

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Re: How to stop bites from paralyzing entire body, when someone bites the [TAIL]?.
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2014, 03:40:11 am »
Assume that means squeezing with the stump against the body. Each of the three parts of the each limb can be used for wrestling, although you have to stop using legs for standing if you want to do that.

How to break grasp is beyond me.

One other something that you might want to know is that currently, bones have [PAIN_RECEPTORS:50] or something, which means one damaged bone produces enough pain to put down a normal creature. If the tail has a bone and it got somehow chipped/shattered in the bite, that'd also cause a similar effect, although it would be passing out, so it's not what happened here.
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Urist Da Vinci

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Re: How to stop bites from paralyzing entire body, when someone bites the [TAIL]?.
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2014, 04:09:12 am »
Quote from: clownwolf on August 24, 2014, 03:17:44 am
Quote from: StagnantSoul on August 24, 2014, 02:06:05 am
Also, unless you remove the head from your aardvark men, they'll always be targeted for headshots when they're passed out.

Aardvark Man 2 didn't pass out. He was conscious the entire time. The problem only appears when the tail is bitten and latched on. The tail somehow prevents body movement when the humanoid can't break the tooth's grip, which shouldn't happen.

I am also still bothered by the fact that the Aardvark Man 1 in that particular fight managed to 'grab' using his bloody stump. I only added nails to the toes and fingers, so upper legs shouldn't have been used for wrestling grabs.

I am confused as to what exactly is the problem here.

- Paralysis is a thing, but it doesn't happen when something bites your tail. Paralysis is applied via syndromes, i.e. Giant Cave Spider bites.
- A creature that has been grabbed with a wrestling hold or latched bite can't dodge, and can't move to another tile without breaking the hold. This does not prevent it from fighting back. Breaking grasps requires a wrestling skill check, influenced by creature size and strength.
- It appears that the victim fell unconscious due to the pain, and then was repeatedly hit in the head. Not sure why that isn't in your log/report, but the head auto-targeting only works for the AI when it gets the free hits anywhere due to the unconscious opponent. Perhaps you could check the gamelog.txt file?
- Any [LIMB] or [GRASP] part can be used to initiate wrestling. However you can't use the [LIMB] parts connected to [STANCE] parts if you are standing.
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clownwolf

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Re: How to stop bites from paralyzing entire body, when someone bites the [TAIL]?.
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2014, 04:29:44 am »
I managed to replicate the bug.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

aardvark man raw:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Fun Facts: Aardvark teeth are so far back their jaws that is is probably impossible to be bitten by one. So I removed bite attacks from my Aardvark men, and just replaced it with a tail swipe. They also have gizzard stones, like cave crocodiles. I made them have a gizzard organ, and drop a gizzard stone. Vanilla DF2014 raws still has aardvark bites and no aardvark gizzards though  >:(

EDIT:

Only tails are bugged, so it is not a problem with bite attacks, or with teeth. This pic shows what should happen normally.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 04:39:15 am by clownwolf »
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clownwolf

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Re: How to stop bites from freezing entire body, when someone bites the [TAIL]?.
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2014, 04:49:50 am »
I just realized I was confusing you guys by using the word 'paralysis'. I used no venoms on bite attacks.

So yeah, the tail is too much trouble. I'm just gonna make a new tail with a boneless feature, similar to noses and eyes. This way it will be extremely easy to sever, and avoid this paralysis-like effect. All I did was add the default tail to the body part list, I didn't expect this much trouble over it.
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Urist Da Vinci

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Re: How to stop bites from paralyzing entire body, when someone bites the [TAIL]?.
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2014, 10:14:01 am »
Quote from: clownwolf on August 24, 2014, 04:29:44 am
I managed to replicate the bug.
...
aardvark man raw:
...
Fun Facts: Aardvark teeth are so far back their jaws that is is probably impossible to be bitten by one. So I removed bite attacks from my Aardvark men, and just replaced it with a tail swipe. They also have gizzard stones, like cave crocodiles. I made them have a gizzard organ, and drop a gizzard stone. Vanilla DF2014 raws still has aardvark bites and no aardvark gizzards though  >:(

EDIT:

Only tails are bugged, so it is not a problem with bite attacks, or with teeth. This pic shows what should happen normally.
...

Using your raws, I had two of them fight and generate the following gamelog.txt excerpt:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The log ends because I paused the game. When I looked at Aardvark Man 3 in-game with "v", it was clearly unconscious. Primarily due to the scratch attacks to the arms (no attacks hit the tail or any bones!) the creature fell unconscious due to accumulated pain.

Conclusions:
- The tail is not a problem and could be kept, but a boneless tail (perhaps with a cartilage core) would be a good idea
- The "combat reports" give an incomplete story on occasion
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clownwolf

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Re: How to stop bites from paralyzing entire body, when someone bites the [TAIL]?.
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2014, 01:48:01 pm »
Quote from: Urist Da Vinci on August 24, 2014, 10:14:01 am
Conclusions:
- The tail is not a problem and could be kept, but a boneless tail (perhaps with a cartilage core) would be a good idea
- The "combat reports" give an incomplete story on occasion

The bite attack isn't getting triggered because the raw I posted uses AARDVARK_CHEEK_TEETH (same as regular teeth except no front teeth). If you change it to regular TEETH they will use bite attacks again.

Anyway, you are exactly right. The combat reports are incomplete. Here is the game log on the bugged fight I posted earlier, the fight between AM 34 vs AM 35, with the unreported detail in bold text.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I had my bone pain receptors to 12. I think he is passing out because the muscles are being torn apart after every bite, so I think I will reinstate the normal tail.

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