Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[hector13]

That’s what I thought they meant, and it would be ridiculous if that’s what they meant.

Like, the kid did everything the cop asked him to do. He fucking froze, as the cop was shouting, he was in the process of showing him his fucking hands, as the cop was shouting, and the cop shot him.

This gives people who interact with the cops no reason to follow their instructions, because they’ll just get shot. If you’re running, keep fucking running, if nothing else to make it harder to get shot.

If you have anything that can possibly be perceived as a weapon anywhere within your immediate vicinity, you might as well use it because you’re going to get shot anyway.

[delphonso]

But I guess this is what we can expect from today's crack squads of highly trained, professional, highly competent, selfless, brave heroes willing to risk their lives to protect society and their communities.

Stealing this from someone - perhaps even earlier in this thread - but it's just like insane how if everyday cops didn't have guns, ~1000 people per year wouldn't be killed and the number of dead cops would be about the same.

[Iduno]

But I guess this is what we can expect from today's crack squads of highly trained, professional, highly competent, selfless, brave heroes willing to risk their lives to protect society and their communities.

Stealing this from someone - perhaps even earlier in this thread - but it's just like insane how if everyday cops didn't have guns, ~1000 people per year wouldn't be killed and the number of dead cops would be about the same.

That's really optimistic. Most dead cops are dead from deaths ruled and accidental discharge. Disarming police would make their jobs significantly safer, because you don't have psychos with guns shooting everyone.

https://www.odmp.org/search

[ShinQuickMan]

What's worth mentioning in the Toledo shooting was the officer's improper use of tactical strobe lights. Poor lighting plus blinking lights creates visual distortions. The officer should already have had training to understand as much well before he got himself into this situation. Had he used a regularly flashlight (like he was supposed to), he would've plainly seen the kid was not armed.

[Iduno]

What's worth mentioning in the Toledo shooting was the officer's improper use of tactical strobe lights. Poor lighting plus blinking lights creates visual distortions. The officer should already have had training to understand as much well before he got himself into this situation. Had he used a regularly flashlight (like he was supposed to), he would've plainly seen the kid was not armed.

They have more than enough training, that's why he successfully killed the target. They need solutions that don't end up with violence, which requires a massive overhaul of the way we do policing.

[ShinQuickMan]

Not for nothing. I wasn't implying insufficient training was the cause of this. I was pointing out a fact that, as presented in the footage, procedure was not being followed. The whys are gonna take more time to confirm entirely, though we can all get a good guess on that...

[Frumple]

I mean... are we sure procedure wasn't being followed? Wouldn't be the first (or the fifth, or the fiftieth, or the...) time police procedure was at odds with proper usage of something. Them doing stupid shit with tools that can lead to people getting hurt is unfortunately not an obvious sign of their procedures being ignored

[nenjin]

What's worth mentioning in the Toledo shooting was the officer's improper use of tactical strobe lights. Poor lighting plus blinking lights creates visual distortions. The officer should already have had training to understand as much well before he got himself into this situation. Had he used a regularly flashlight (like he was supposed to), he would've plainly seen the kid was not armed.

They have more than enough training, that's why he successfully killed the target. They need solutions that don't end up with violence, which requires a massive overhaul of the way we do policing.

What needs overhauling isn't training. It's leadership and it's mentality.

I've spoke about this before, but I think the big sea change was 9/11. America has always had feelings about dead cops, but it feels like after 9/11 with all the deaths among firefighters and police, the mantra became "no more dead cops." Full stop. They thought they'd be chasing Al-Qaeda through the streets, got massively increased budgets that they spent on weapons and vehicles and paired that with a siege mentality. Their tolerance for the loss of life of their own went from like 1 to -100 and I feel like policing in general has followed suit.

Old leadership that coaches their cops in private that their #1 priority is to go home alive every day needs to be fired. As fucked up as that sounds, self-defense can't be the thing they carry first and foremost in their minds when they do their jobs. "Protect and serve" is #1, followed by #2 "Go home alive every day." Currently it's backwards. And "Protect and Serve" may not even be #2 anymore. Currently it feels like...

#1 Go home alive every day.
#2 No "bad guy" gets away no matter what they've done.
....
#??? Protect and Serve.

[feelotraveller]

It's probably implied in the above but I think given its active strength an explicit:

#1.5 We decide who the 'bad guys' are.

Needs to be added.

[nenjin]

I originally didn't have "bad guy" in quotes then I realized it was necessary. Politicians love to single out the "bad guys" like they carry cards or something, like there's just a readily identifiable group of villains that we should trust cops to recognize on sight and not mourn when they're extra judicially gunned down in the streets for misdemeanors or less.

[Dunamisdeos]

So that verdict is coming up.

[anewaname]

I originally didn't have "bad guy" in quotes then I realized it was necessary. Politicians love to single out the "bad guys" like they carry cards or something, like there's just a readily identifiable group of villains that we should trust cops to recognize on sight and not mourn when they're extra judicially gunned down in the streets for misdemeanors or less.

Well, there is a "readily identifiable group of villains that we should trust cops to recognize on sight and not mourn when they're extra judicially gunned down in the streets for misdemeanors or less"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

the politicians who are declaring who the "bad guys" are...

[Vector]

I feel embarrassed saying this, but I thought that the spoiler was going to say "cops"

[Frumple]

I don't think the spoiler is actually, like... accurate. At all. Anyway.

I wasn't really sure what the hell would be in it, because, with their general record regarding judgement, the list of entities I'd be comfortable with the cops gunning down in the street is an empty set.

Any set of politicians wouldn't fit in it at the moment, even rancid shits like Greene. Jailed or stripped of political office, sure, but I'd sooner nail my reproductive organs to a wall with a rail spike than trust police judgement on extrajudicial killing at this point.

[Dostoevsky]

Chauvin got a guilty verdict on all counts (up to and including 2nd-degree murder). Appeal is likely, mind, so not fully over yet.