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Author Topic: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice  (Read 429418 times)

Bumber

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3960 on: October 01, 2020, 03:59:03 pm »

So, uh, this is patently untrue. They *did* try and charge Walker with attempted murder and assault.

https://www.king5.com/mobile/article/news/local/kenneth-walker-charges-dismissed-breonna-taylor-case/417-3636711e-0d5f-4819-8fca-dbdbedc10882

Well, okay, they did, but it was dropped in short order. (A bit over a month, which seems about right for fact discovery and bureaucracy.) It was dismissed by a judge before it went to court. Justice system working as intended here.

I found this quote from the article amusing, though: "Kenneth fired a non-lethal warning shot from a legally registered gun."
I'm pretty sure firing a gun at someone is always technically lethal force. We don't allow cops to shoot people in limbs as a substitute for tasing, for instance. Any shot risks a kill.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 04:07:04 pm by Bumber »
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TD1

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3961 on: October 01, 2020, 04:13:21 pm »

Being armed and firing off one shot, even if it had been the ex-boyfriend that did it and not a completely innocent guy, does not make the response of wantonly shooting dozens of bullets into an apartment they don't have sight into called for.
Ultimately, that's where we disagree. I can't imagine why anyone would think being fired upon does not justify firing back.

And that is why American citizens have to fear being murdered by their own police and Europeans do not.

Eh...mostly. The UK still likes to shoot people, but it's less common.

It’s telling you have to go back 15 years to find something.

Mark Duggan is the most recent example I can think of, and that still happened almost a decade ago.
*Coughs* Northern Ireland *Coughs*

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Doomblade187

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3962 on: October 01, 2020, 04:29:37 pm »

So, uh, this is patently untrue. They *did* try and charge Walker with attempted murder and assault.

https://www.king5.com/mobile/article/news/local/kenneth-walker-charges-dismissed-breonna-taylor-case/417-3636711e-0d5f-4819-8fca-dbdbedc10882

Well, okay, they did, but it was dropped in short order. (A bit over a month, which seems about right for fact discovery and bureaucracy.) It was dismissed by a judge before it went to court. Justice system working as intended here.

I found this quote from the article amusing, though: "Kenneth fired a non-lethal warning shot from a legally registered gun."
I'm pretty sure firing a gun at someone is always technically lethal force. We don't allow cops to shoot people in limbs as a substitute for tasing, for instance. Any shot risks a kill.
[/quote
Not only did they charge him, they tried to blame him for the death of Breonna Taylor, his partner. Just because the charges were dropped does not mean that the justice system is working properly.

Quote
The commonwealth’s attorney’s office objected to home incarceration, citing the seriousness of the charges.

“One person is dead, and one person was almost killed due to Mr. Walker's actions,” prosecutor Ebert Haegele said.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2020/03/27/more-info-emerges-police-shootingmore-info-emerges-about-police-shooting/2928421001/
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
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Bumber

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3963 on: October 01, 2020, 04:42:34 pm »

Not only did they charge him, they tried to blame him for the death of Breonna Taylor, his partner. Just because the charges were dropped does not mean that the justice system is working properly.

Quote
The commonwealth’s attorney’s office objected to home incarceration, citing the seriousness of the charges.

“One person is dead, and one person was almost killed due to Mr. Walker's actions,” prosecutor Ebert Haegele said.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2020/03/27/more-info-emerges-police-shootingmore-info-emerges-about-police-shooting/2928421001/

Prosecutors gonna prosecute. It's literally their job to try to hit the defendant with anything they think will stick.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 04:48:09 pm by Bumber »
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

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A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

Doomblade187

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3964 on: October 01, 2020, 04:48:53 pm »

Gee, they seem pretty bad at prosecuting police officers, though. What with only recommending wanton endangerment to the jury, even when ballistics show that it's inconclusive that Walker even shot the wounded officer. Maybe our prosecutorial system has some flaws, and we should change it.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 04:53:05 pm by Doomblade187 »
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
One mustn't stare into the pathos, lest one become Pathos.

Bumber

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3965 on: October 01, 2020, 04:50:15 pm »

Gee, they seem pretty bad at prosecuting police officers, though. What with only recommending wanton endangerment to the jury, even when ballistics show that it's inconclusive that walker even shot the wounded officer. Maybe our prosecutorial system has some flaws, and we should change it.

Maybe, yeah.
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

hector13

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3966 on: October 01, 2020, 06:18:48 pm »

Gee, they seem pretty bad at prosecuting police officers, though. What with only recommending wanton endangerment to the jury, even when ballistics show that it's inconclusive that Walker even shot the wounded officer. Maybe our prosecutorial system has some flaws, and we should change it.

What about the all important news cycle!!
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Parsely

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3967 on: October 01, 2020, 08:33:10 pm »

BREAKING: Human Rights Watch (@hrw) out with horrifying investigation. The brutal NYPD attack on hundreds of protestors in early June in the Bronx wasn't just criminal & unconstitutional. It was *planned*. NYPD used the curfew to trap, assault, & arrest.

[Embed] https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/09/30/us-new-york-police-planned-assault-bronx-protesters

The person who made the tweet is Scott Hechinger, a public defender in Brooklyn.

---

E: I also wanted to share that recently Attica Scott, the representative who authored a bill banning no knock warrants in response to Breonna Taylor's death, was arrested along with her 19yo daughter minutes before curfew ended while going to a church to seek sanctuary after she participated in a protest. She, her daughter, and organizer Shameka Parrish-Wright have all been hit with felony rioting charges.

https://wfpl.org/rep-attica-scott-protesters-targeted-for-arrest-as-political-retaliation/
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 08:36:31 pm by Parsely »
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SalmonGod

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3968 on: October 02, 2020, 01:19:40 am »

BREAKING: Human Rights Watch (@hrw) out with horrifying investigation. The brutal NYPD attack on hundreds of protestors in early June in the Bronx wasn't just criminal & unconstitutional. It was *planned*. NYPD used the curfew to trap, assault, & arrest.

[Embed] https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/09/30/us-new-york-police-planned-assault-bronx-protesters

The person who made the tweet is Scott Hechinger, a public defender in Brooklyn.

Surprising absolutely no one who has paid attention to the experiences of protesters since the Seattle 1999 WTO conference.

Only the execution of the warrant has any bearing on the officers' liability. I'm not debating whether or not the warrant should've been granted. I'm debating whether or not Breonna Taylor was "murdered in [her] sleep because police showed up to the wrong address".

--snip--

This is fundamentally the difference between the approach you and I are taking to the subject.  This isn't an individual case.  This is a systemic issue.  One that is incredibly well understood, especially by those actually perpetrating it.  I might agree with you if it were an isolated case without various types of baggage attached.  And from my perspective, approaching it the way you do is about trying to remove that baggage from the equation.  You claim that the protester narrative is emotionally distorting the issue, but I rather think you're doing the rhetorical equivalent of what news organizations do when they write headlines about these incidents like "Suspect dies after struck by bullets in officer-involved shooting".  Focusing on any technicality and sterilization of language you can think of to avoid addressing the nature of what transpired and who bears responsibility for creating the situation as it was.

The situation as it played out was knowingly and intentionally orchestrated.  People are responsible for causing it to happen, and they need to be treated as such.  This wasn't an unfortunate accident where no one was at fault.

One of my core points that I'll repeat again is that this has played out literally tens of thousands of times.  Police KNOW what happens when they do things this way.  But they keep doing it anyway.  Logical conclusion is that terrorizing communities is the point.  And if, as a profession, police don't understand the consequences of their tactics and behaviors by now, then that's *even less* flattering.

The individual officers ARE liable both for serving the warrant and it's execution.  You can argue that they're not legally liable, but I don't care.  Our legal system is broken.  They are liable in the sense of what should be a reasonable standard of individual ethical responsibility.  They KNOW what is going to happen, and they agree to do the job anyway.  They know what they're doing is reckless and unnecessary and likely to get someone innocent killed.  Anyone who knowingly does something like this in exchange for a paycheck is a murderer for hire in my book.  If they don't want to get painted that way, then they can refuse to murder people, and then get fired or quit.  I don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone to turn down a paycheck if the job calls for murdering innocent people, and to judge them for it if they take the paycheck.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 01:27:30 am by SalmonGod »
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scriver

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3969 on: October 02, 2020, 02:30:14 am »

Basically, in one sentence: Either it is illegal, and you should be outraged that the policemen is getting away with murder; Or it is legal, and you should be outraged that it is legal


BREAKING: Human Rights Watch (@hrw) out with horrifying investigation. The brutal NYPD attack on hundreds of protestors in early June in the Bronx wasn't just criminal & unconstitutional. It was *planned*. NYPD used the curfew to trap, assault, & arrest.

[Embed] https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/09/30/us-new-york-police-planned-assault-bronx-protesters

The person who made the tweet is Scott Hechinger, a public defender in Brooklyn.

Surprising absolutely no one who has paid attention to the experiences of protesters since the Seattle 1999 WTO conference.

* scriver slaps old man hipster hat off of Salmon's head
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SalmonGod

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3970 on: October 02, 2020, 02:55:12 am »

BREAKING: Human Rights Watch (@hrw) out with horrifying investigation. The brutal NYPD attack on hundreds of protestors in early June in the Bronx wasn't just criminal & unconstitutional. It was *planned*. NYPD used the curfew to trap, assault, & arrest.

[Embed] https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/09/30/us-new-york-police-planned-assault-bronx-protesters

The person who made the tweet is Scott Hechinger, a public defender in Brooklyn.

Surprising absolutely no one who has paid attention to the experiences of protesters since the Seattle 1999 WTO conference.

* scriver slaps old man hipster hat off of Salmon's head

Hehe...

Really, though, my point is that's how long those specific tactics have been in play at pretty much every major protest.  Use of curfews, specifically, may be rare, but stuff like blocking people in so they have nowhere to go, ordering them to disperse, and then violently arresting them for not dispersing has been done to death.
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Zangi

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3971 on: October 02, 2020, 11:24:52 am »

My take, our police response to protesting is shaped by ‘what worked’ since the days of MLK.

The freedom to express discontent has a visual presence limit before our police brings their tool bag.  Unless they blare about showing up armed with a ton of guns and actually do it.
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SalmonGod

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3972 on: October 02, 2020, 12:25:50 pm »

My take, our police response to protesting is shaped by ‘what worked’ since the days of MLK.

The freedom to express discontent has a visual presence limit before our police brings their tool bag.  Unless they blare about showing up armed with a ton of guns and actually do it.

Protest and civil unrest have always been heavily oppressed in the USA, for sure.  But there was a drastic change in the style of approach to it about 20 years ago.  The 1999 WTO conference in Seattle is widely considered to have been the prototype for how protests have looked ever since.  Most notably police tactics that are intended to generate pretenses for violent confrontation, and raiding organizing locations to confiscate electronics (which fell out of fashion a few years later after fusion centers bloomed around the country and made non-intrusive surveillance easier for local law enforcement).  The Seattle police chief at the time resigned shortly after the event, and has been vocally remorseful ever since.  He became an activist against the police tactics that he trialed, which afterwards became universal practices, and even wrote a book about it.
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SOLDIER First

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3973 on: October 04, 2020, 09:52:48 pm »

No good cops exemplified.
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Doomblade187

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3974 on: October 05, 2020, 07:35:55 am »

Meanwhile, the concentration camps are still shitty AF: https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5f35305ec5b6fc009a625a85
(huffpost, but quoting primary source)
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
One mustn't stare into the pathos, lest one become Pathos.
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