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Author Topic: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice  (Read 442379 times)

Reelya

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3600 on: June 21, 2020, 03:45:26 pm »

Those are different concepts, and pretty clear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_blue_line
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_of_silence

It's the same difference as for the military, between saying that a military is an important deterrent for a state, vs the military being immune from prosecution for war crimes. Those things aren't the same.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2020, 03:48:48 pm by Reelya »
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Max™

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3601 on: June 22, 2020, 10:29:01 pm »

So I read through and appreciated the effort Vector put into that well formed and delivered post, and then I read a reply which quotes five excerpts and treats it as a dismissal of the entire treatise... and maybe I'm still just angry from some of the shit I saw being done last night alone... including some unflattering shoutouts to our recent sub-topic of Columbus, Ohio... but I can't just let that go goddammit.

Dwarf_Fever: why do you think the history of european invaders in the americas, the genocides both deliberate and accidental, the construction of a nation on "virgin territory" inhabited only by "backwards savages" which was built on the literal blood, sweat, and tears of people who had been reduced to owned property...

...a nation of noble aims and ideas which nonetheless empowered white male landowners in a fashion that allowed them to take for granted their privileged status then and accordingly allows others nowadays to deny said status existed because they didn't run around stating the obvious to all and sundry...

...a nation which suffered and quelled a traitorous insurrection over the radical idea that perhaps it might be wrong to claim ownership over not just the fruits of another man's labor, but indeed declaring ownership of the very man himself seems perhaps to run afoul of that pesky "all men are created equal" stuff...

...a nation that to this day maintains a regularly replenished pool of those who openly sympathize with traitors, and tolerates them so long as they remember to not say the quiet parts out loud...

...a nation that as we speak has in various locations in various cities all throughout it endured the confusing and frustrating and tragic sight of row after row of all too often white men wearing armored vests and helmets and carrying shields and weapons coming up against crowds of nonviolent people of all ages and genders and tones and presentations with just as many if not more ways of trying to get across a simple request for the largely white forces amassed against them and the all too white audiences in power who are pushing and pulling at those forces from above: please stop killing us.

It is the simplest and easiest to satisfy request a peaceful voice can deliver, it requires no extra effort to accomplish, simply relaxing one's grip on a baton, allowing the spray can or taser or firearm in your grip to return to a holster if not the ground, releasing a forearm which was torqued against a throat, removing a knee which was pressing on a neck.

It has to be done eventually, maybe it happens at the end of your shift, or maybe after the cooling meat underneath you stops being a person anymore, but why is it so outlandish to ask for it to happen before someone does something that can't be undone?

How can anyone look at a group of people being attacked by the police because they were asking to not be killed by the police... and think the problem lies anywhere but with the police?

Set aside such silly things as "laws being a matter of right and wrong, black and white, absolute" in a nation which operates under principles which prominently encode the right of an accused lawbreaker to ask a group of their peers if the law should be applied in that situation...

...what possible defense is there for attacking, possibly even killing someone, for doing nothing but standing peacefully and asking you to not kill them?

If you do nothing, you satisfy their request, if you do any number of limitless other possibilities, you satisfy their request, only by clenching your jaw, readying your weapons, and stating that "no, you do not have the same right to exist which I have" through your actions will you fail to do what they asked of you.

Even if you thought you could provide a defense of that, why would you? It will be false from the outset unless you also negate your right to exist, won't it?

Edit: Whoops, six... three... five, numbers is bullshit, all hail the empty set!
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 10:34:55 pm by Max™ »
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Arbinire

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3602 on: June 23, 2020, 12:08:26 pm »

https://news.yahoo.com/seattle-end-police-free-protest-022318235.html

lol, too many people were "peacefully protested" to death for the summer of love, eh?
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Max™

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3603 on: June 23, 2020, 12:19:24 pm »

Yeah, can't let people get away with thinking they can commit their own violence, better get the cops back in there so they can go back to *shuffles note cards... squints* shooting and suffocating minorities like usual?

Also I appear to have misspoke earlier when I suggested that we have a constitutionally enshrined right to ask a group of our peers to serve as a jury and determine whether or not a given law should be applied in a given situation--which is what they do, NOT determine guilt or innocence, jurors judge laws, judges theoretically provide impartial oversight--but I wasn't quite aware of how far we've come down the road to a carceral state.

I mean, I had a sense that it was bad... but I didn't quite realize that "burdensome costs of extending right to counsel or trial by jury" were actually accepted as valid in supreme court decisions against the 5th and 6th amendments along with the "reasonable force from the perspective of an officer on the scene" shield and qualified immunity umbrella... no, defunding the police isn't even a bare minimum of what we need to do.

We need to destroy the prison system and decarcerate america before prisons and policing finish destroying it completely.
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Doomblade187

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3604 on: June 23, 2020, 12:37:16 pm »

https://news.yahoo.com/seattle-end-police-free-protest-022318235.html

lol, too many people were "peacefully protested" to death for the summer of love, eh?
Uh, buddy?

The police don't usually prevent crimes, just respond. The protesters actually provided medical aid to the people who were shot. Seattle Fire Department won't come unless police have arrived first, so the protesters rushed the two victims to the hospital.
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
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Cthulhu

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3605 on: June 24, 2020, 07:31:56 am »

In completely insane news, some residents in Milwaukee busted into one or two houses that have been rumored to be sex dens after someone was seen moving missing kids into a van.  Police searched but found nothing, residents broke in, found some horrific shit including what certainly looks to be dated lists of sex acts.  Cops stand around, shoot rubber bullets, generally be useless, and at this point have apparently finally gone back into the house shortly before it catches on fire.

Also seen on a livestream moving people under tarps into a van.  Several children apparently broken free from one of these people-movements, but I haven't seen anything from them yet.  The livestreams are all on facebook, which I don't have.

Nobody knows what the fuck is happening, but it sure looks like civilians have uncovered some kind of child trafficking house and the cops are either directly involved or trying to protect the perpetrators.  Protect as in prevent their exposure, not keep the mob from killing them, to be clear.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 07:35:11 am by Cthulhu »
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Doomblade187

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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
One mustn't stare into the pathos, lest one become Pathos.

martinuzz

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3607 on: June 24, 2020, 09:42:04 am »

What's a CW?
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http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

Doomblade187

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3608 on: June 24, 2020, 09:42:56 am »

What's a CW?
Content Warning: basically, this has potentially upsetting content, don't go in if you're already in a bad mood.
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
One mustn't stare into the pathos, lest one become Pathos.

SalmonGod

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3609 on: June 24, 2020, 10:27:55 am »

Not going to question the rest of the story at this point, but one of the videos does make it look like the crowd set fire to the house, not the police.
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nenjin

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3610 on: June 24, 2020, 10:28:39 am »

Quote
Police searched but found nothing, residents broke in, found some horrific shit including what certainly looks to be dated lists of sex acts.

I'll question. Where was this info posted?
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Zangi

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3611 on: June 24, 2020, 10:33:58 am »

Shit, so civilians found the kids in there.  Have the cops booked anyone related to the child trafficking/sex dungeon?  Or are they just releasing them elsewhere? 

You need anyone other then the Milwaukee police to handle this steaming bag of shit.  Cause from anyone’s perspective, they are all in on that child sex dungeon.
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Doomblade187

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3612 on: June 24, 2020, 10:38:36 am »

The info posted was several Facebook streams linked on Twitter with photos and local news articles. It is entirely possible that the civilians burned he house, and it's to me unclear exactly how the kids were found, but it's extremely clear that the Police didn't find them.

Either way, Milwaukee police not being willing to investigate the missing persons case due to "insufficiently cooperative" family is really bad.
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
One mustn't stare into the pathos, lest one become Pathos.

nenjin

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3613 on: June 24, 2020, 10:42:41 am »

No doubt. But burning down the entire crime scene makes it even less possible for the police to do anything official, if they were going to do anything. Now we're just operating off the rumor mill.

Of course if you wanted to cover up evidence of a sex trafficking ring.....burning down the crime scene is a pretty good move.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

SalmonGod

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3614 on: June 24, 2020, 10:42:51 am »

Quote
Police searched but found nothing, residents broke in, found some horrific shit including what certainly looks to be dated lists of sex acts.

I'll question. Where was this info posted?

I think the original source for all of it is Facebook.  All the videos are Facebook livestreams.  I think the people who were reporting first-hand from on the scene were all active on Facebook, and the person who made the Twitter thread was just spectating, crossposting the videos, and summarizing/paraphrasing everything else.  I haven't found any other sources for first-hand accounts, and news of this event is not yet widespread.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.
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