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[Folly]

I mean, the guy was just asleep in a car then they've charged him with drunk driving, already questionable. Then, the guy was already complying with them, and they went to cuff him. Already at least two questionable points here, and it's about the entire event itself, they pretty much concocted the whole reason to interact with a random person, and kept upping the stakes.

They didn't just concoct a reason to interact with a random person. The Wendy's staff called the cops, because he was passed-out drunk in the middle of their drive-through lane. Unless you want us to believe that he parked there and then got drunk, it's pretty clear that he was drunk when he drove there. And yes, they tested him on the spot and confirmed that he was well above the legal limit to be driving, so they had very good reason to arrest him.

[Bumber]

It seems the officer that shot Brooks has 12 complaints on record. 6 of them he's listed as EXONERATED, 1 NOT SUSTAINED, 3 SUSTAINED (resulting in oral/written reprimand.) Of the 3 SUSTAINED, one relates to use of force with a firearm, the other two relate to vehicular accidents. The remaining 2 have nothing listed, which relate to discharge of firearm (one of them being the shooting of Brooks,) which could mean they're still under investigation. (However, the non-Brooks one was in August 2015.)

Make of that what you will.

[Max™]

Look, I haven't said it yet because I assumed it was obvious, but here's why everyone is so fucking pissed off about this shit and shit like it happening all the fucking time: if Brooks had been a white dude and everything else happened the same way, he'd probably still be alive.

This is why it pisses people off seeing anyone trying to make some sort of justification for the event, it boils down ultimately to the fact that in the US, if you're a black dude stopped by cops, had everything else been the same about the stop, you are disproportionately more likely to die than if you had been a white dude, they didn't need to escalate shit like they did, and if he were white they probably wouldn't have so while you see it as "they had reasonable justification" to everyone else it looks like you're trying to defend racists doing a racism.

Edit: Plus that's silly, racists don't need your help defending them, that's what police unions are for.

[Folly]

Well, you're not going to fix racism by ignoring and blatantly misrepresenting the facts. If you want to make the case that Brooks would still be alive if he were white, then by all means do so. But pretending that he did absolutely nothing wrong only makes your argument appear woefully misinformed.

[voliol]

If police had never approached that man, he would have just slept in his car and nothing bad would have happened.  But because police got involved, it turned into a situation where they had to protect themselves (if we grant you the notion that they were justified in believing they had to shoot to protect themselves).  If police enter into situations that are non-violent and must introduce violence to feel safe, then we would all be safer without police.

He was DRIVING, while DRUNK. He was also drunk enough to attack people without provocation, and to take up weapons and use them carelessly. And you are making the argument that nobody needed to intervene.

No he wasn’t, he was in a car while drunk, which counts as the crime ”drunk driving”, but he was clearly parked. This isn’t a car chase scenario, nor does random people approach parked cars while armed. At the moment he was a threat to no one. The police could have approached him unarmed or only armed with tasers that they know are enough to incapitate a person short range, but not kill them by ”accident”. That initial escalation (bringing guns) by the cops forced them into a situation where they felt the only options were to kill or be killed. That must be considered a massive failure.

Well, you're not going to fix racism by ignoring and blatantly misrepresenting the facts. If you want to make the case that Brooks would still be alive if he were white, then by all means do so. But pretending that he did absolutely nothing wrong only makes your argument appear woefully misinformed.

One could argue the right of the law, ideally supposed to ensure the best outcome for the civilian, was overwritten by what Brooks imagined to be right to ensure the best outcome (i.e. safety) of the civilian (i.e. himself). Is Brooks doing wrong for trying to protect himself from a law he knows is often unjust? Perhaps, but it must be put into perspective of a racist USA with terrifyingly many cases of police brutality. You know, what this thread is all about and the reason behind the protests.

[Folly]

No he wasn’t, he was in a car while drunk, which counts as the crime ”drunk driving”, but he was clearly parked. This isn’t a car chase scenario, nor does random people approach parked cars while armed. At the moment he was a threat to no one. The police could have approached him unarmed or only armed with tasers that they know are enough to incapitate a person short range, but not kill them by ”accident”. That initial escalation (bringing guns) by the cops forced them into a situation where they felt the only options were to kill or be killed. That must be considered a massive failure.

He was parked in a Wendy's drive-through lane. Do you think he drove into the middle of that lane perfectly sober, parked, went to a bar and had a few drinks, then came back and got in his car to take a nap? No, obviously he drove there while drunk.

And yeah, it would be great if police could do their job unarmed. If the US didn't have more guns than people, then that would be a wonderful option. But the situation is what it is. And the police were following protocol by carrying their firearms as they did their job.

[wobbly]

He was parked in a Wendy's drive-through lane. Do you think he drove into the middle of that lane perfectly sober, parked, went to a bar and had a few drinks, then came back and got in his car to take a nap? No, obviously he drove there while drunk.

I don't think anyone was actually disputing this? I doubt there's any real risk of him running someone over when he's on foot and his car is still parked at Wendy's.

[Iduno]

https://twitter.com/revrrlewis/status/1273228221258047488

Cops hate cameras, and hate it when you show all of the illegal crap they do. Keep doing it. If we rely on body cams, the footage will be deleted or hidden, like in this case.


Edit: And cops killed 120 people in the first 20 days of protests; twice as many as they normally do. You can tell by the apathetic response from most people in charge that killing civilians is their job.

[TD1]

Look, I haven't said it yet because I assumed it was obvious, but here's why everyone is so fucking pissed off about this shit and shit like it happening all the fucking time: if Brooks had been a white dude and everything else happened the same way, he'd probably still be alive.

I'll say again. It's not obviously racism. If a white dude ran away with a weapon pointed back, I can see many a police man reacting instinctually. Even simply acting on training.

The only reason to assume it was racism is because the cops were white. Which is, you know... racist.

[SalmonGod]

He was parked in a Wendy's drive-through lane. Do you think he drove into the middle of that lane perfectly sober, parked, went to a bar and had a few drinks, then came back and got in his car to take a nap? No, obviously he drove there while drunk.

So what?

It's been pointed out several times already by multiple people that if they wanted to serve the drunk driving charge that his identity was established.  Thus they freely had the ability to approach him again later at a time when the interaction could be less prone to irrational behavior.  He was parked and sleeping.  There was zero threat to anyone at the time that police showed up.  Why was it of life-or-death importance that he be cuffed at exactly that time and no later?

I'm really not interested in arguments based on what is technically considered legally allowed procedure or technical law-breaking.  The law sucks.  That's what this is all about.  I'm coming from an ethics perspective, not a legal permissibility perspective.

[Bumber]

This is why it pisses people off seeing anyone trying to make some sort of justification for the event, it boils down ultimately to the fact that in the US, if you're a black dude stopped by cops, had everything else been the same about the stop, you are disproportionately more likely to die than if you had been a white dude

I don't think your statement here is entirely accurate. Raw numbers, cops shoot more unarmed white people than unarmed black people. Black people are shot more proportional to population, but also account for more interactions with the police. It works out such that if you're a black person stopped by a cop, you're less likely to be shot than a white person stopped by a cop.

Of course it's bad that you're more likely to be stopped if you're black, but the situation (blocking the Wendy's drive-through) made that inevitable in this case. Even after tasing an officer with the stolen taser, and running away with it the cop didn't resort to lethal force until Brooks fired the taser at him!

I heard from someone on TV that Brooks' taser shot went over the officer's head because Brooks was aiming at the head. Tasers are considered deadly weapons in Georgia. The cops are allowed to use them because they're trained to use them. There's an argument on why they might be considered more deadly in civilian hands.

[Doomblade187]

Thing is, black people are more often stopped by police for no good reason. Like back in NY, when stop and frisk was on action, they searched minorities way more than white people.

[Bumber]

There was zero threat to anyone at the time that police showed up.  Why was it of life-or-death importance that he be cuffed at exactly that time and no later?

You mean before letting him back in his vehicle?

(I mean, I guess they could've called him an Uber, or something.)

[Doomblade187]

There was zero threat to anyone at the time that police showed up.  Why was it of life-or-death importance that he be cuffed at exactly that time and no later?

You mean before letting him back in his vehicle?

nobody said they had to let him back into the vehicle. As salmon posted earlier, they could have driven the guy home, or just parked him in the lot to sleep it off.

[bloop_bleep]

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