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[Folly]

You're saying the cop believes being shot with a taser is deadly enough to fear for their lives.
Then, from this, it follows that the cop believes that each time they use a taser then they are discharging a deadly weapon at a civilian.
Unless you're saying that cops believe that weapons become more deadly when held by other people.

That is exactly what I'm arguing.

The taser is not considered inherently deadly. Rather, it incapacitates so that the user can follow up with either lethal or non-lethal force at their discretion. The police use the taser with the intention of following up with harmless restraints. Other people use tasers against cops with the intent of then stealing their more deadly firearms and utilizing those weapons to lethal effect.

Brooks did nothing but escalate the violence from the first moment the cops arrived. He ran away, but only so that he would have the range he needed to use the taser without being grappled. He was clearly and deliberately attempting to execute cops who were just doing their jobs, and he left them no choice but to defend themselves.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

So you admit it was murder, you just don't care.

[Draignean]

He was clearly and deliberately attempting to execute cops who were just doing their jobs, and he left them no choice but to defend themselves.

Goddamn. Last time I woke up in drive-through I couldn't execute a two-handed citrus squeeze and accurately hit my porcelain body target, but this man lured the cops in close, deprived them of their lethal weapons, retreated to a tactical distance, and then attempted a double-tap execution.

Do I have to be black to get superpowers? Or is it enough to just be poor?
 

[hector13]

Brooks did nothing but escalate the violence from the first moment the cops arrived. He ran away, but only so that he would have the range he needed to use the taser without being grappled. He was clearly and deliberately attempting to execute cops who were just doing their jobs, and he left them no choice but to defend themselves.

Yes, he was so intent on murdering police officers he took their taser instead of their guns.

What?

[SalmonGod]

Anyone a police officer encounters could unexpectedly turn out to be a drunken master or super spy action hero.  Any object can conceivably be used to kill someone.

Therefor anyone a police officer encounters needs to do the following

1.  Immediately lay prone and motionless on the ground
2.  Recite prayers of worship honoring the all-encompassing greatness of police authority
3.  Hope to god the police don't get close to you.  As soon as they get close to you, you could reach out and grab their weapon.
4.  Hope to god that the immediate vicinity in which they necessarily had to lay down was a flat expanse offering no objects within reaching distance
5.  Hope to god that the officers don't issue any commands which involve moving, especially reaching for objects (which could all be deadly weapons - that driver's license they want you to retrieve?... could have a razor blade running along the edge that could slice a neck open in one quick motion)

If at any point the person who is unfortunate enough to have come into contact with the police, regardless of the context of the encounter, fails or is unlucky on any of these points, the police are justified in immediately shooting them just to be safe. 

• If they order you to retrieve your driver's license, they must also then kill you.  That driver's license could have a razor blade hidden along the side that could slice the neck open in one quick swipe as soon as they step forward to take it from your hand. 
• If they need to handcuff you, they're also justified in killing you, because as soon as they get close enough to apply handcuffs, you could reach for their weapon and pose a deadly threat.
• If you happened to be standing next to a rock when the encounter began, they should just shoot you.  A thrown rock can be deadly.
• After shooting you, just to be safe, police need to wait for you to pass out from blood loss + an additional 10 minutes before attempting any further aid or custody process.  A person who has been shot is capable of unexpected superhuman feats and sudden irrational violence due to the adrenaline in their system from being shot.  Even if they continue to lay on the ground motionless and beg for their life after being shot, you can't trust it.  It's not safe.

Is it really so difficult to understand?  Is it wrong to value safety?

/s

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Most - not all, but most - of the stuff I'm satirizing above is at least close to things I have actually seen people sincerely say in defense of police violence.  Folly's getting pretty fucking close to this level.  It's like the only lives that deserve safety are police lives, and it would be totally ok to some people if they killed half the people they ever met in the name of safety exclusively for themselves.

[Folly]

Folly's getting pretty fucking close to this level.  It's like the only lives that deserve safety are police lives, and it would be totally ok to some people if they killed half the people they ever met in the name of safety exclusively for themselves.

I'm not saying that the police are always right. A lot of what they do is really fucked up.
But there does have to be a line somewhere. And imo, taking a cop's weapon and firing it at them is clearly on the wrong side of that line.
You start shooting at a cop, even if it's just a taser, then you deserve what you get.

[Jimmy]

I kinda understand the reasoning behind the taser shooting. Tasers render you helpless to resist what comes afterwards.

I mean, the drunk guy could have done anything to the cop after he dropped him. Even, like, pressing his knee on the guy's neck until he died!

[TD1]

The main issue here is the alleged racism. BLM* even burned the Wendy's down because of it.

A man has taken a gun-looking object from you, one which you know causes pain and incapacitates you, and has fired it at you. Your visceral reaction is to defend yourself. Your training tells you to defend yourself (especially in situations involving gun-like weapons). So you do. You are dealing with a man who has assaulted you.

This is not to excuse what happened. It was horrible. But there's zero reason to suspect that it was motivated by racism.


*Note: The fire came after protests in the city and was watched over by protesters. I don't know if it was BLM; just a guess.

[Frumple]

Folly's getting pretty fucking close to this level.  It's like the only lives that deserve safety are police lives, and it would be totally ok to some people if they killed half the people they ever met in the name of safety exclusively for themselves.

I'm not saying that the police are always right. A lot of what they do is really fucked up.
But there does have to be a line somewhere. And imo, taking a cop's weapon and firing it at them is clearly on the wrong side of that line.
You start shooting at a cop, even if it's just a taser, then you deserve what you get.

Fucking horseshit. Tasering someone, anyone, is not, in fact, grounds for extrajudicial execution. You don't "deserve" to be shot in the back for anything that went on there. Especially not failing to taze someone, when their partner is standing right goddamn besides them and after they tried to assault and taze you. There is zero goddamn grounds, justification, or reason outside of fucking bloodthirst for that man to have been murdered by a pair of cops in that parking lot. If it weren't a cop doing the killing there's even odds (assuming the victim was white, anyway ), they'd be in jail right goddamn now for it.

The main issue here is the alleged racism. BLM* even burned the Wendy's down because of it.
But there's zero reason to suspect that it was motivated by racism.

There's every reason. Cops (and others, for that matter) deal with belligerent drunks (nevermind you'd have to be fucking wrongheaded to think that was what was going on there to begin with) all the goddamn time. Most of the time, and especially when they're white, the drunk ends up going home mildly scuffed up at worst, even if they struggle, even if they yoink a fucking teaser or some shit. Instead this one gets capped in the back after running away, and the primary difference is real goddamn evident.

[Iduno]

I'm not sure I understand. So if you have a taser, I can shoot you in the back while you run away from me? That just seems like it would be ok if I did that to you? Even if I have a large selection of other options that don't include killing you? I can select your death?

Again, you're conveniently ignoring the facts that he stole the weapon from a cop, and then he pointed the weapon at a cop and discharged it. The fact that he was running away is largely immaterial.
None of the 'other options' would have effectively stopped the man from using potentially lethal force against them. The cops had good reason to believe their lives were in immediate danger and had every right to respond with the force necessary to protect themselves.

I've seen so many videos of people having weapons forced into their hands by police that I need video proving he stole it. That's why they wear cameras. Do we have video on this one?

[Doomblade187]

I'm not sure I understand. So if you have a taser, I can shoot you in the back while you run away from me? That just seems like it would be ok if I did that to you? Even if I have a large selection of other options that don't include killing you? I can select your death?

Again, you're conveniently ignoring the facts that he stole the weapon from a cop, and then he pointed the weapon at a cop and discharged it. The fact that he was running away is largely immaterial.
None of the 'other options' would have effectively stopped the man from using potentially lethal force against them. The cops had good reason to believe their lives were in immediate danger and had every right to respond with the force necessary to protect themselves.

I've seen so many videos of people having weapons forced into their hands by police that I need video proving he stole it. That's why they wear cameras. Do we have video on this one?

They have released the bodycam video. I have not watched it.

[ChairmanPoo]

Folly's getting pretty fucking close to this level.  It's like the only lives that deserve safety are police lives, and it would be totally ok to some people if they killed half the people they ever met in the name of safety exclusively for themselves.

I'm not saying that the police are always right. A lot of what they do is really fucked up.
But there does have to be a line somewhere. And imo, taking a cop's weapon and firing it at them is clearly on the wrong side of that line.
You start shooting at a cop, even if it's just a taser, then you deserve what you get.

Fucking horseshit. Tasering someone, anyone, is not, in fact, grounds for extrajudicial execution. You don't "deserve" to be shot in the back for anything that went on there. Especially not failing to taze someone, when their partner is standing right goddamn besides them and after they tried to assault and taze you. There is zero goddamn grounds, justification, or reason outside of fucking bloodthirst for that man to have been murdered by a pair of cops in that parking lot. If it weren't a cop doing the killing there's even odds (assuming the victim was white, anyway ), they'd be in jail right goddamn now for it.

The main issue here is the alleged racism. BLM* even burned the Wendy's down because of it.
But there's zero reason to suspect that it was motivated by racism.

There's every reason. Cops (and others, for that matter) deal with belligerent drunks (nevermind you'd have to be fucking wrongheaded to think that was what was going on there to begin with) all the goddamn time. Most of the time, and especially when they're white, the drunk ends up going home mildly scuffed up at worst, even if they struggle, even if they yoink a fucking teaser or some shit. Instead this one gets capped in the back after running away, and the primary difference is real goddamn evident.

Well the thing is that a taser does kind of look like a gun.
They do totally shoot people if they think they have guns. Black or white. Look at this mentally challenged guy
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-killed-duty-officer-california-costco-was-mentally-challenged-cousin-n1018086

Not only in the US either
https://www.euronews.com/2019/04/13/sweden-charges-three-police-over-fatal-shooting-of-down-s-syndrome-man

I think the problem in the US is that cops are way too teigger happy because of the sheer amount of guns in the system. One big step in addressing this would be to reduce the number of circulating firearms in general and have better gun control laws.

[TD1]

Eh, how is it not a belligerent drunk? I saw the video. The interaction was calm and polite - the cops even looked bored if you ask me - on both sides. He volunteered for a test and failed. When he was being cuffed, he resisted, assaulting the officers. They got him on the ground. One took out his taser, warning him repeatedly to calm down, he was going to have to taser him. The man grabbed the taser, punched a police man, and ran away, turning around to discharge the weapon.

There's no reason to assume a racial motivation, except your own bias.

Edit:

I think the problem in the US is that cops are way too teigger happy because of the sheer amount of guns in the system. One big step in addressing this would be to reduce the number of circulating firearms in general and have better gun control laws.

100% this.

[SalmonGod]

The main issue here is the alleged racism. BLM* even burned the Wendy's down because of it.
But there's zero reason to suspect that it was motivated by racism.

There's every reason. Cops (and others, for that matter) deal with belligerent drunks (nevermind you'd have to be fucking wrongheaded to think that was what was going on there to begin with) all the goddamn time. Most of the time, and especially when they're white, the drunk ends up going home mildly scuffed up at worst, even if they struggle, even if they yoink a fucking teaser or some shit. Instead this one gets capped in the back after running away, and the primary difference is real goddamn evident.

Hospital workers cope with drunk or otherwise belligerent people all the time, and they do it without being armed or hurting anyone.

[Cthulhu]

I think the problem in the US is that cops are way too teigger happy because of the sheer amount of guns in the system. One big step in addressing this would be to reduce the number of circulating firearms in general and have better gun control laws.

Cops actively killing people for pulling a gun or just touching their waistband is only the most visible part of a wide-reaching problem.  Not only will unilateral citizen disarmament not fix anything, it's a non-starter.  It's never gonna happen.

Why should civilians give up guns because cops are trigger-happy?  If cops were dogs or something I'd accept that getting bit is your own fault and you should change your behavior, but human beings are responsible for their own actions.