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[Cthulhu]

Notably at least one person has already died from CS complications with asthma at the protest.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I strongly disagree. Sure, you can use tear gas to kill, just as you can use water to kill. And guess what, dispersing a crowd with a fire hose is equally indiscriminate as to whom you hit (and god forbid you hit a baby with it). But to call it a terror weapon and invoking war crimes is a ridiculous hyperbole.

That's not equally indiscriminate, but it is indiscriminate and should also be banned, thanks. Hell, that's a more lethal weapon outright, especially since cops like to put sand in their water trucks.

It is a terror weapon. Its purpose is to cause indiscriminate mass terror. This is the reason it is a war crime to use it.

[Red Diamond]

I strongly disagree. Sure, you can use tear gas to kill, just as you can use water to kill. And guess what, dispersing a crowd with a fire hose is equally indiscriminate as to whom you hit (and god forbid you hit a baby with it). But to call it a terror weapon and invoking war crimes is a ridiculous hyperbole.

The atrocity is what you do with it, not what it you use. 

Yes, they are.  I've been saying that.  Gangs are states for people the de jure state cannot or will not cater to.  The mafia started as local enforcement during a period of state failure in Italy, yakuza started as a sort of trade guild for gamblers and peddlers, etc.  Which is why I've been saying that if we had a functioning state that could actually provide basic human rights and services to its entire population, most of the violence we think we need an unaccountable paramilitary for would go away.

This includes serial killers, because serial killers are an artificial category created by the FBI and maintained by a media industry that makes money talking about them.  There is no mysterious chunk of the population born without souls.

Serial killers are no more an artificial category because it was invented by the FBI than other word because it was invented by someone.  Not all people in the world are lovely fluffy bunnies that just need love.  They are however just individuals, hated even by other criminals so are of little relevance except as a sign of wider societal corruption. 

Gangs are what states exist to prevent from happening.  Perhaps gangs in some cases turned into states, but this is rare because gangs are noncompetitive with states; pretty much always an existing state eradicates the gang long before it can evolve into a state.  Gangs are uncompetative because they are based upon antisocial behavior and so destroy the society they rule over, causing it to become too weak to support the gangs ability to mantain control of it's territory.  States by contrast are based upon prosocial behavior, causing them to become too powerful for gangs to prevail against in most cases.

The problem is that states become a victim of their own success.  Once people are all lovely and safe, people start to resent being governed at all and seek to throw everything into chaos, either because they have better State in mind or they are Anarchists that believe all their prosperity and security is not owed to any State at all.  In reality they achieve the exact opposite of their aims, rule by a criminal gang; which is what defunding/abolish the police department will get you Americans if you continue with this foolishness. 

Ironically here in Britain our own shrink-the-state austerity party defended the police forces which quite predictable consequences (crime, especially violent crime went up). 

[Zangi]

Serial Killers are probably preventable in a long-term social sense. 
As for dealing with them, you don’t exactly need the police, rather an investigation team.  FBI or if the city is big enough to have it’s own detectives and ancillary. 
Then you call in swat(or whatever new future equivalent) once you figure out where/who they are.

Gangs are also preventable.  They rise from economic issues like chronic joblessness and/or inability to cope with society abandoning their community.

A lot of the scary security things are cause of really poor social and economic issues that have been left to fester for decades. 
Neglected and/or abused children pay that shit forward.

[Iduno]

Notably at least one person has already died from CS complications with asthma at the protest.

Some in prison, also. No asthma, just repeated and heavy exposure.

I strongly disagree. Sure, you can use tear gas to kill, just as you can use water to kill. And guess what, dispersing a crowd with a fire hose is equally indiscriminate as to whom you hit (and god forbid you hit a baby with it). But to call it a terror weapon and invoking war crimes is a ridiculous hyperbole.

You can control whether or not you shoot it thorough residential windows. Or avoid trapping protestors and people who were grocery shopping in an enclosed area for long enough that you can say they were breaking the law, and showering them with it. Or avoid repeatedly spraying it in concentration camps that the government has run for over a decade.

[Bumber]

I think the reason tear gas is banned in warfare is probably because somebody could drop a huge concentrated amount of it, resulting in something absolutely lethal, but technically just an irritant.

[Max™]

I assure you I wasn't bringing it up out of ignorance, nor was it just out of disgust.

I was specifically bringing it up because cops are trained to act like they're in a warzone and treat civilians like enemy combatants, yet they still plunk chemical weapons into crowds left and right.

[Dunamisdeos]

Ok so I admit it, at first I was like cmon' guys, a water cannon? I know high pressure is dangerous but they gotta use SOMETHING non-letha----

No wait though - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_cannon#Safety

Turns out it aint, at all. Even wikipedia has a neat sampling of deaths. Apparently they switched to plastic bullets to avoid the brutality of water cannons, and holy fuck we've seen what those can do in the last few weeks.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Throw some sand in the tank and it goes from that into a water cutter. You know, the kind they use to cut diamonds?

[Dunamisdeos]

I don't see any readily available examples of chucking sand in the tank, though I don't doubt you. Can you citation/link? I share the shit from this thread with various other folks.

I've had to explain to more people this week that Columbus was one of the shittiest humans to ever live more times than I ever though I would in my life.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I am 100% certain I've seen it reported on before during some previous unrest, but I can't find a link either. Because this is a dirty cop trick and a harder one to prove, it's the kind of thing media almost never picks up on.

[Iduno]

Are you fucking kidding?

https://www.complex.com/life/2020/06/footage-oklahoma-city-cop-i-dont-care-black-man-saying-i-cant-breathe-before-dying

[Dunamisdeos]

The autopsy says the police’s response didn’t lead to the “fatal trauma” and recorded other “significant” determinants like physical restraint, use of methamphetamines, asthma, emphysema, and heart disease. The reason for his death was said to be “undetermined.”

Ugh.

Yes, some of these conditions can cause a collapsed lung. If he actually had them and this isn't a result of coroner cause-of-death bingo, then it's possible the cop didn't "kill" him. No, it's still a fucking disgusting stain of a man that says "I don't care" to a man who says he can't breathe, and then proceeds to restrain him. That would be what, manslaughter?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Nothing, most likely. Cops have no duty of care in most circumstances.

[Dunamisdeos]

Ahem. Fair point. Would have been a case of manslaughter, if a non-cop did it.

Should be manslaughter going forward.

Maybe he was some kind of dangerous violent psycho. I'm quite sure someone is already claiming that somewhere on twitter. I mean obviously a 42-year-old asthmatic man with emphysema and a failing heart collapsed lung would terrify anyone into being afraid for their life, amirite?