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[Rolan7]

How does that saying go?

"If you have 1 bad cop and 99 good cops, but the good cops don't take action against the bad cop, then you have 100 bad cops." (Paraphrased)

"A few bad apples spoil the bunch"

[scriver]

It's a dangerous game.  We know from South America what happens when you fire corrupt cops en masse, a lot of cartel enforcers and leadership used to be cops.  And if that sounds too far-fetched for America, remember the FBI's been tracking organized white supremacist infiltration of law enforcement for years.  In a way, we're already there.  The US police establishment has literal terrorist infiltrators at every level.

I'm very worried about Minneapolis, not necessarily because their implementation of police abolition is bad itself, but because you're going to have hundreds of suddenly unemployed police officers with a huge incentive to fuck things up and make the effort look like a failure.

In a way that was exactly what happened with the KKK, except they were soldiers after a lost war instead of police. So maybe we should be glad secret societies are no longer in vogue

[Loud Whispers]

Minnesota police officers were trained by Israeli soldiers in restraint techniques

bruh

bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh

[Red Diamond]

Minnesota police officers were trained by Israeli soldiers in restraint techniques

bruh

bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh

I am surprised the Isrealis are bothering to train the police force of some backwater American State.  They must have a busy schedule. 

[Bumber]

I am surprised the Isrealis are bothering to train the police force of some backwater American State.  They must have a busy schedule.

Article says there was counterterroism conference hosted by the FBI, which presumably had cops attending from all over the country.

[scriver]

20 dollar terrorism is the worst

[Zangi]

20 dollar terrorism is the worst

Being born with darker skin is top terrorism.

[Reelya]

Like the height checks for fairground rides they can have color chips and say you must be lighter than this chip to enter this shop. That wouldn't be racist, you see, since a white person could just be very tanned.

[scriver]

Me, all flushed from running hurrying down to grab a bag of chips just before storeclose: 😠

[Reelya]

BLM going mainstream is pretty much the best news for BLM ever. However ... I think there are a small sliver of old BLM people who might not be too happy - ones such as Zarna Joshi of the "Hugh Mungus" incident: the type of agitators who seem more intent on getting their personal profile up with mock outrage rather than actually winning points for the group they're supposed to be helping: "help help I'm being oppressed!"

There will be obvious and large shifts in the leadership dynamic going forward, and this will most likely shunt most of the old leadership out of the way. It's the reason fringe groups often force new recruits to undergo "purity tests". Such tests guarantee the established leaders remain the leaders, and are a "cult-like" or "cult-lite" behavior that are common to many types of group. However when there's a big influx of new blood, who aren't indoctrinated into the core belief system, then the old leadership can find themselves outed. It might be tempting to believe now that BLM is getting so many new members, they can all be persuaded to also buy into a lot of ancillary beliefs that aren't directly part of the message, but that would be too optimistic.

So whereas old BLM might have had a high proportion of people in their leadership who say things like "down with capitalism" and "overthrow the patriarchy", there has been a very large, and sudden, influx of new people into the movement, who almost certainly don't all think like that. This is actually both a blessing and curse for the old leadership structures. They're very unlikely to actually be able to go "now that you agree that Black Lives Matter surely you'll also agree that we need to overthrow the capitalist patriarchy as the prerequisite for solving the problem?" when they're now probably outnumbered 100:1 by people who just aren't indoctrinated into that worldview to start with. If the current "system" works for white people, there's no fundamental reason you can't make that "system" also work for other people. If "white lives matter" right now, then that itself is proof that we don't need to destroy the system to make "black lives matter". Just have the same system and treat black people the same as we do white people.

So yeah, it's going to be very interesting to watch how the leadership dynamics going forward for BLM are going to be. It's likely there will be a large influx of people who just believe in the generalized concept of equality, along with an old guard, many of whom have more dyed-in-the-wool concepts about social justice using very specific terminology and frameworks. These kinds of debates may develop within the movement once the in-the-streets protests die down.

[kaijyuu]

Me, all flushed from running hurrying down to grab a bag of chips just before storeclose: 😠

Good thing you did too, else you might've been shot in the face with a rubber bullet for daring to go outside after curfew.

[isitanos]

The current news coverage and BLM themselves seem completely biased. They barely mentioned, or in the case of the latter, flat out ignored the death of David Dorn, retired black cop, at the hands of black rioters. The guy was just trying to defend his community.


I've seen Youtube videos of savage beatings of innocent bystanders of all colors by black looters too. No videos of that on the media either, and no outrage. It doesn't fit the narrative, apparently. Meanwhile corporations are donating to BLM massively and naïvely without any research into that organisation's history, because they want to be the first to virtue signal.


Given the biased way information is relayed I don't see how we can give credibility to compilations of police brutality. America sees so much violence overall that isolated facts are not worth much, especially since they're easily taken out of context. What we need is stats and hard facts, and the only ones I've seen state that the overwhelming amount of black deaths are at the hands of other black civilians, a small portion is from black cops, and a tiny portion from cops white or otherwise. So if anything they need more and better funded police in poor neighborhoods, not less. Better funding would allow them to go beyond the bare minimum (i.e. repressing crime) and hire people who do community groundwork to diminish the tensions. Not an easy task since people in racial ghettos (worldwide) tend to even attack other civil servants like firefighters... sometimes you really wonder if it's worth trying to help them.


Edit: Oh and BTW, George Floyd's criminal record showed that he robbed, menaced with a gun and beat up a pregnant black woman around 13 years ago. That's just one of his numerous convictions. Such hero, much wow. That, plus the autopsy apparently showed that he didn't die from the knee on the neck (Which was still brutal and not a correct police technique, mind you, but what if the same cop used this on white suspects too? It completely changes the story.) but from some kind of panic attack, which might be partially due to the fact that he was on drugs. Rioters are looking stupider by the minute.
If anything George Floyd is a living justification for more, better funded police.

[Rolan7]

The current news coverage and BLM themselves seem completely biased. They barely mentioned, or in the case of the latter, flat out ignored the death of David Dorn, retired black cop, at the hands of black rioters. The guy was just trying to defend his community.

First off, any and every death in this demonstration is a tragedy.  (Yes, even Trump dying would be sad)
I see that ABC news covered David Dorn's death.  In fact it's the second result if I search "abc news riot deaths"
The other results, well:
1: Curfews
2: Dorn
3: Brutality
4: 4 Officers shot, say police (none life-threatening)
5: 13 people killed
6-9: Statistics and general information

Even ABC news is covering Dorn AND 4 wounded officers before... other things.

[isitanos]

First off, any and every death in this demonstration is a tragedy.

We can definitely agree on that, but from what I've read on twitter from some BLM affiliates or just random social justice advocates, there's a lot of minimisation of the importance of white victims. Seems to go along the same logic that "blacks can't be racist".


About the TV, they took their sweet time, some chains gave it disproportionately low coverage, and I still haven't found a BLM statement.


Also see my edit above about recent findings about George Floyd (him alledgedly not even being murdered, and his horrendous beating of a black pregnant woman). The latter at least seems based on solid evidence from court documents.

[Rolan7]

Edit: Oh and BTW, George Floyd's criminal record showed that he robbed, menaced with a gun and beat up a pregnant black woman around 13 years ago. That's just one of his numerous convictions. Such hero, much wow. That, plus the autopsy apparently showed that he didn't die from the knee on the neck (Which was still brutal and not a correct police technique, mind you, but what if the same cop used this on white suspects too? It completely changes the story.) but from some kind of panic attack, which might be partially due to the fact that he was on drugs. Rioters are looking stupider by the minute.
If anything George Floyd is a living justification for more, better funded police.

Different post for a completely different conversation:
"Such hero"?  Who do you think is calling the MURDER VICTIM a hero?  Do you have a point in discrediting the deceased?  No, really - why are you bringing up his history, does it have anything to do with his death?

Interesting you say the knee-on-kneck isn't "correct police technique", when I've seen footage of police doing the same to protesters.  Not handcuffing, not doing anything but kneeling on the, let's say "suspect", necks.  Patiently pinning them by the neck with a knee, because what could go wrong?

If it's not correct technique, then I assume you agree with at least murder 3 for Chauvin.  And assault for the officers who did it to protesters, on camera.