Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[LordSlowpoke]

this is the right thread right?

[DJ]

Aren't they kinda signing up to brave danger when they join the police? Imagine if firefighters refused to do endanger themselves.

[MonkeyHead]

this is the right thread right?

The worst thing about this situation is this: If the man who was shot did pull a gun on the police, then they probably did the right thing. The trouble is, with the current mode of operation of police in the US, public opinion, and the media currently as it is, we find ourselves questioning the events and actions as reported. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself if it is a reaction that is in proportion, but suspicions have been driven way, way high by events that have gone before and people may not accept that this was an acceptable course of action should it be capable to show it to be so. Such are the consequences of such past transgressions though.

[Xantalos]

this is the right thread right?

Eh, like Monkeyhead said, if the dude actually did pull a gun on a cop that's kinda suicidal because they will shoot you. That whole situation seems kinda blurry, but it just seems like it came at exactly the wrong time.

[UXLZ]

I'm not really informed on these kind of things, so I'm wondering... What's the situation like in Australia?

[pisskop]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ9w1HHRMQw

Hunh.  Not sure how to feel.  Maybe my own points are stretched and taken too far?

[smjjames]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ9w1HHRMQw

Hunh.  Not sure how to feel.  Maybe my own points are stretched and taken too far?

How about never because violence solves nothing*?

*Yes I know wars can 'solve things', but that's besides the point.

[UXLZ]

Wars don't solve things, they just create other problems that are more important.

[smjjames]

Wars don't solve things, they just create other problems that are more important.

Depends on your perspective, which is why I put it in quotes.

[Descan]

The only thing war solves is a surplus of male population. :/

[Willfor]

According to reports on the ground, Antonio Martin was still alive for two hours after the incident, and died surrounded by police officers who called for back up instead of an ambulance. Even if he pulled a gun, was this justified at all? Should the police be allowed to let you bleed out instead of arresting you simply because you pulled a gun?

Is this due process?

[Frumple]

So far as I understand things, the courts decided it was... somewhere in the 80s, iirc. And it's been continually upheld over the decades since. The basics of it is that police have no affirmative duty towards individuals -- if they let someone bleed out on the ground, they're not under legal mandate to avoid that. The whole "protect and serve" thing is an outright fiction.

Pretty sure most every damn body with even two ounces of morality in their bones would disagree, but that's the state of things as is.

[Willfor]

Are they also allowed to stop people from trying to rescue the person? He was there for two hours and there was a crowd. Why were they stopping people from trying to get him to a hospital? They may not have an affirmative duty toward an individual, but they actively blockaded him from the help he needed to live. His own mother was in crowd begging to be let to see him.

[Frumple]

Pretty sure they've got the ability to keep the general populace away from a shooting scene, yes. Especially family, really. That they used that capability to let someone bleed out after shooting them is intensely fucked up, but, again, insofar as I'm aware it's... not actually illegal. Immoral as goddamn, but not illegal.

When you ask if this is due process, well. That's part of the problem. It's almost certainly going to be found to be within the boundaries of due process.

[Willfor]

That's why this is going to be rallied around even though the guy pulled a gun. You should reasonably expect to get arrested if they are still alive at the end of a confrontation with the police, and with that get medical treatment even if they're going to jail. This was an execution even if it wasn't officially one. He easily could have been processed the right way and lived to see the inside of a jail cell. Instead of that he died, and it was preventable.

This isn't going to go away.