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[Mictlantecuhtli]

Did you know you can get fired from officer duty for *not* escalating a situation? And they say there isn't a culture of violence. This is also a clusterfuck of mismatched reports. The campus officer's account widely varied from the PD's. I'm not sure how I'd feel as a non-sociopath officer if your job is in jeopardy for not escalating situations immediately to violence.

[sneakey pete]

the USA is pretty much the only place in the world where every single locality has its own police force which is managed, and recruits, locally isn't it? Maybe that has something to do with it...

[XXSockXX]

Yeah, I find it very weird that there is such a thing as "university police". At the local campus here they have...one night-guard dude with a dog and a flash light.

------
Funny, but relevant too, especially the stuff about militarization of the police.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

University Police are just a normal department contracted to the university grounds. Campus Security is more like what you're talking about, they're around too, but they aren't cops and only have academic authority.

[XXSockXX]

I mean just a night-guard, there is no campus security. And certainly no police contracted to the university (even if the campus is a bit out of town).

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I would call a night-guard security.

[Rolan7]

Did you know you can get fired from officer duty for *not* escalating a situation? And they say there isn't a culture of violence. This is also a clusterfuck of mismatched reports. The campus officer's account widely varied from the PD's. I'm not sure how I'd feel as a non-sociopath officer if your job is in jeopardy for not escalating situations immediately to violence.

The cops tased an uncooperative suspect who was clearly a threat to himself, if not others, so that the paramedics safely help him.  How uncooperative was he?  We don't know.  Could they have talked him into handcuffs?  We don't know.

But if we implicitly believe the cop who's losing his job, the tasing was unnecessary, and we get to call the other cops sociopaths and complain about the "culture of violence".  Everything fits into the expected narrative of evil cops attacking people for absolutely no reason.  Which is super convenient, because it's all their fault; no need to examine the complex factors behind the problem, just assign blame.

And if anyone does suggest that the force might have been necessary, they're blaming the victim.  So we can blame them, too.

[nenjin]

Which is super convenient, because it's all their fault; no need to examine the complex factors behind the problem, just assign blame.

Oh, you mean like cops regularly do when interacting with anyone a shade darker than their sheets?

Thanks for setting that one up.

[smeeprocket]

Which is super convenient, because it's all their fault; no need to examine the complex factors behind the problem, just assign blame.

Oh, you mean like cops regularly do when interacting with anyone a shade darker than their sheets?

Thanks for setting that one up.

So much burn.

But really guys, cops totally aren't the problem. Those overwhelmingly black "victims" were just a long string of isolated incidences, and they were uncooperative, and they sold loose cigarettes and stole cigars, and they had toy guns. I mean, all of those are valid reasons to murder an unarmed individual.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

The cops tased an uncooperative suspect who was clearly a threat to himself, if not others, so that the paramedics safely help him.  How uncooperative was he?  We don't know.  Could they have talked him into handcuffs?  We don't know.

But if we implicitly believe the cop who's losing his job, the tasing was unnecessary, and we get to call the other cops sociopaths and complain about the "culture of violence".  Everything fits into the expected narrative of evil cops attacking people for absolutely no reason.  Which is super convenient, because it's all their fault; no need to examine the complex factors behind the problem, just assign blame.

And if anyone does suggest that the force might have been necessary, they're blaming the victim.  So we can blame them, too.

Yeah, firing people who don't instantly escalate situations isn't breeding a culture of violence or anything. Lol. Seriously, lol. Are you done with the kneejerk reactions or?

[Propman]

As for the general thread of thought that reducing or eliminating racism within the police force somehow wouldn't help, I... just have to look at those making the claim with extreme askance. If we could bring the levels of excess down to what's performed against non-minorities, that would frankly be a goddamn coup and a major improvement. Even if, by some incredibly unlikely occurrence, things met half-way, it would still be a notable step forward. This apparent sentiment that correcting for racism would do little to nothing to improve the situation is just... off. Fix everything, of course not, but major freaking improvement? Almost certainly.

No, see, if you end racism then the cops will stop before they shoot an unarmed black guy, go "Oh, we've hit our quota on black guys already" and go shoot an innocent white person to keep things even. There'll be the same number of shootings, just spread around more. That's equal opportunity for you.

So long as the police force remains corrupt however, the racism issue can't be fixed, as its a symptom of the corruption of the force allowing racial preferences to play a role in their line of duty. To fix racism, you have to first fix the fundamental thought processes in which the current force is currently founded upon, and until that happens, nothing done to alleviate the situation will have a permanent effect.

[Rolan7]

The cops tased an uncooperative suspect who was clearly a threat to himself, if not others, so that the paramedics safely help him.  How uncooperative was he?  We don't know.  Could they have talked him into handcuffs?  We don't know.

But if we implicitly believe the cop who's losing his job, the tasing was unnecessary, and we get to call the other cops sociopaths and complain about the "culture of violence".  Everything fits into the expected narrative of evil cops attacking people for absolutely no reason.  Which is super convenient, because it's all their fault; no need to examine the complex factors behind the problem, just assign blame.

And if anyone does suggest that the force might have been necessary, they're blaming the victim.  So we can blame them, too.

Yeah, firing people who don't instantly escalate situations isn't breeding a culture of violence or anything. Lol. Seriously, lol. Are you done with the kneejerk reactions or?

My point is that you're ignoring the possibility that the taser was required.  I'm not saying it was.  I'm saying we don't know, but it's convenient for you to assume it wasn't.  It allows your "kneejerk reaction".  I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be "kneejerk reacting" to, but I'm sorry I got heated.

You're also misrepresenting the charge against him.  This officer is accused of walking away from the active situation "to make a phone call" instead of assisting.  That's pretty serious.  "Not escalating a situation" is just some words you put in the departments mouth to make them look bad.  I'm sorry, but that's frustrating!

[nenjin]

You're also misrepresenting the charge against him.  This officer is accused of walking away from the active situation "to make a phone call" instead of assisting.  That's pretty serious.  "Not escalating a situation" is just some words you put in the departments mouth to make them look bad.  I'm sorry, but that's frustrating!

You, and the other officers, seem to be misrepresenting the situation that generated this charge. Why was this officer's "assistance" needed while other officers stood around, shouted at a 150-pound suicide risk and tased them? One more taser not used on top of the ones already being used, that's his dereliction of duty?

Seems more like the officers wanted him to act in lock step with them so there could be no doubt cast on their actions, so there was no other cop who could say "Their actions were excessive and I acted on that belief."

I'm sure as a 20-year veteran of the police force, he's just flat out wrong though.

I'm not saying it was.  I'm saying we don't know, but it's convenient for you to assume it wasn't.

I like how you start out expressing your own and everyone else's ignorance, and then snidely double down on your assumptions.

[Rolan7]

No, you're trusting him implicitly over the other officers, without knowing any more about the situation.

The suspect was near weapons and "uncooperative" despite the first officer talking with him until police arrived.  He needed medical attention, but the situation wasn't safe for paramedics (which only arrive once a scene is completely secure).  The arriving police decided to use less-lethal force to make that happen.  Instead of helping with that, the officer who had been talking with the suspect walked out of the room.

Those are the facts based on the article.  Did that officer do the wrong thing?  Were the other officers justified in using tasers?  Did they have to tase him so many times?  We don't know yet.  The department says the situation was more complex than the union said, what are they referring to?  We don't know yet.

So it's wildly premature to condemn the other officers, and just wrong to say he was fired for "Not instantly escalating the situation".

Edit in response to edit:

I'm not saying it was.  I'm saying we don't know, but it's convenient for you to assume it wasn't.

I like how you start out expressing your own and everyone else's ignorance, and then snidely double down on your assumptions.

I don't understand, what assumptions am I snidely doubling down on?

[Leafsnail]

Certain communities have a lot of overt criminality.  These same communities tend to be racially homogenous.  Look at this cultural gem which is still sung by kids to this day, here in North Carolina (the song is about nearby Tennessee)

Once two strangers climbed on Rocky Top,
Lookin' for a moonshine still.
Strangers ain't come back from Rocky Top,
Guess they never will.

Dead DEA investigators, wooo.

What do you have against the Osbourne Brothers?  This is a really strange non-sequitur.

I was trying to dig up statistics to confirm or deny these constant (unsupported) accusations of racial bias, but I'm at my wit's end.  The problem is covered well in this fine CNN article:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/02/politics/kristoff-oreilly-police-shooting-numbers-fact-check/

Basically, the departments are self-reporting if at all.  That's crazy and should be fixed.  I think this has already come up in the thread, but it bears reiterating.

Even if we use O'Reilly's bullshit data it's still clear that black people die to police disproportionately.