Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Rolan7]

When you assume you make an ass out of u and me

Baldwin’s defense is that it wasn’t his fault.

The gun was said to have passed through at least two pairs of hands before getting to his (the armorer and assistant director, both of whom have been sentenced for their part) and both of those people, as per the quoted part of the NYT article I linked (also set out on Wikipedia) were responsible for checking the gun was safe to use.

Where the rounds came from only matter to him so he can blame another person, Seth Kenney, to deflect blame from him apparently messing about with a gun.

It doesn’t matter in the armorer’s case because it is her responsibility to make sure guns are safe prior to (and after) each use on set. The bullets could have fallen from the sky for all it matters to that.

Okay cool, so the prosecution didn't NEED to hide evidence about whether she was the source of the live round.
Yet they did.
Do you want to talk about that, or just say they did it for funsies and we shouldn't worry about it?

[hector13]

When you assume you make an ass out of u and me

Baldwin’s defense is that it wasn’t his fault.

The gun was said to have passed through at least two pairs of hands before getting to his (the armorer and assistant director, both of whom have been sentenced for their part) and both of those people, as per the quoted part of the NYT article I linked (also set out on Wikipedia) were responsible for checking the gun was safe to use.

Where the rounds came from only matter to him so he can blame another person, Seth Kenney, to deflect blame from him apparently messing about with a gun.

It doesn’t matter in the armorer’s case because it is her responsibility to make sure guns are safe prior to (and after) each use on set. The bullets could have fallen from the sky for all it matters to that.

Okay cool, so the prosecution didn't NEED to hide evidence about whether she was the source of the live round.
Yet they did.
Do you want to talk about that, or just say they did it for funsies and we shouldn't worry about it?

I think your expectations are too high if you’re expecting prescience from jurists.

Edit 2: anyway, the live rounds were handed in as evidence the day the armored was sentenced.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/alec-baldwin-rust-trial-how-prosecution-fell-apart-key-moments-rcna161671

… Baldwin’s lead attorney, asked Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office crime scene technician Marissa Poppell whether a “good Samaritan” had come to authorities with ammunition earlier this year.

Poppell confirmed under oath that the sheriff’s office was given Colt .45 rounds by Troy Teske, a former police officer and friend of Thell Reed, the stepfather of “Rust” armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed. In fact, according to that testimony, Teske dropped off the rounds on the same day Gutierrez-Reed was convicted of involuntary manslaughter in Hutchins’ death.

[feelotraveller]

Him being famous and white doesn't really matter to the legal system these days, being rich is the real superpower.

That's what OJ says!

Edit 2: anyway, the live rounds were handed in as evidence the day the armored was sentenced.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/alec-baldwin-rust-trial-how-prosecution-fell-apart-key-moments-rcna161671

… Baldwin’s lead attorney, asked Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office crime scene technician Marissa Poppell whether a “good Samaritan” had come to authorities with ammunition earlier this year.

Poppell confirmed under oath that the sheriff’s office was given Colt .45 rounds by Troy Teske, a former police officer and friend of Thell Reed, the stepfather of “Rust” armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed. In fact, according to that testimony, Teske dropped off the rounds on the same day Gutierrez-Reed was convicted of involuntary manslaughter in Hutchins’ death.

Hmm, maybe I misinterpreted the source I read:
https://www.thewrap.com/alec-baldwin-rust-manslaughter-trial-dismissed-over-withheld-bullet-evidence/

The outcome caps a real life courtroom drama which began Thursday, when the defense revealed that in March — near the end of the manslaughter trial of “Rust” armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed — investigators had been provided with several live bullets by Troy Teske, a retired Arizona police officer, and that Teske told them they matched the bullet that killed Hutchins.

I took that 'near the end' to mean a couple of days rather than on the day but now I don't know... Shrug.  But even on the final day it seems to me that the prosecution had a duty to inform the defense of the new evidence, particularly since it directly supported a line of inquiry that the defense had been pursuing, and one that the prosecutors were refusing to pursue.

https://www.thewrap.com/rust-armorer-shocked-live-ammo-on-set-supplier-sabotage/ (This from during H.G-R's trial)

Wednesday’s morning session consisted mostly of prosecutors showing extended video from Gutierrez-Reed – with Bowles present – during a Nov. 9, 2021, on-the-record interview with investigators, including Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Officer Alexandria Hancock.

During the lengthy exchange, Hancock tells Gutierrez-Reed that the box of “dummy”-labeled ammo from which she apparently loaded the fatal round also contained other rounds that tested “live.”

An audibly stunned Gutierrez-Reed repeatedly uses expletives to express shock and deny that she brought live rounds to the set for target practice or any other purpose. She then name dropped Seth Kenney, the owner-operator of PDQ Arm and Prop, whom she would sue in a 2022 civil action (the lawsuit is apparently still pending).

“Honestly, I’m not sure [why there was a mixed box],” she tells investigators. “I would say right now, Seth [Kenney] supplies all the boxes. I don’t want to speculate, but he’s also been acting pretty weird toward me personally. We had a whole-ass argument, and we weren’t talking during this whole incident.”

Though Kenney was not on the set, one of his employees, prop master Sarah Zachary, was. The prosecuting attorney asked Hancock whether Gutierrez-Reed was ever “insinuating” that Zachary “planted that box of ammunition.”

“Yes,” Hancock replied from the witness box.

“Did you ever find any evidence to support that?” the prosecutor asked.

“No,” Hancock answered.

During his cross-examination of Hancock, Bowles suggested that in the days immediately following the deadly accident, Kenney had access to a safe where ammunition was stored, which the detective confirmed. He also asked Hancock whether Kenney was “pushing” the story that Gutierrez-Reed was responsible for bringing live rounds to the set; she indicated that he was simply trying to “give information” to investigators.

Hancock also testified that there was never any evidence found to support rumors that Gutierrez-Reed had been “plinking,” or shooting practice target arounds, on our around the set – which she denied in her interview with detectives. Bowles asked whether Kenney’s fingerprints, DNA or phone records were ever taken – and she said they had not.

Back on the stand in the afternoon, Hancock told the court that she found “no evidence” that Kenney had supplied the “mixed” box of ammunition – and stopped pursuing that line of inquiry despite pressure from Bowles and Thell Reed, Gutierrez-Reed’s stepfather and a top Hollywood armorer.

No matter how unworthy the prosecution (presumably later) judged the new evidence its close correlation with the (an?) active line of defense during the trial should have caused them to divulge it.

Also note that the vast majority of the trial was taken up by the matter of who was responsible for live ammunition being brought onto the set.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hannah-gutierrez-reed-rust-armorer-shooting-sentence-hearing-involuntary-manslaughter-halyna-hutchins-alec-baldwin-new-mexico/

The trial itself ran slightly over two weeks and mainly centered around the origins of six live bullets that were found on the set of "Rust" as investigators began their probe into the shooting on Oct. 21, 2021.

… because it was relevant to his defense. The armorer’s defense team proving she didn’t bring the live rounds on set doesn’t prove that she didn’t give the assistant director a gun with a live round in it that ended up killing someone.

At least according to the expert guest (former DA, I think) in this live-during-trial-broadcast it was one way for the prosecution to establish Hannah's guilt.  (I want to say necessary since the other way does not seem to have been satisfied.)  She had to be found reckless not merely negligent (or something like that).  Relevant bit starts shortly after 35:00 and goes for 2-3 min.  Although the testimony of Sarah Zachry[sic] is very interesting in itself - she was the fourth person to have contact with the gun immediately prior to the shooting, had links to Kenney and may well have been the person who brought the live ammunition onto set.
https://www.courttv.com/title/sarah-zachry-rust-prop-master-takes-the-stand/
Regardless of suspicion, or sloppiness, and there's lots of that to go around in this case ("I didn't pull the trigger", yeah of course the FBI know absolutely nothing about testing guns..., the corporate culture problem, the trial by media, etc.) the issue is that there does seem to be potential here to create reasonable doubt and the buried evidence would have indeed supported/been relevant to the line of defense for Hannah.  Whether it would have been enough we will likely never know since the prosecution decided to bury it - until Baldwin's lawyers got wind of it to dismiss his case... where it seems far less relevant.

[hector13]

We will know because she can appeal: https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/14/entertainment/hannah-gutierrez-reed-alec-baldwin-rust/index.html

The dude who gave the bullets in apparently gave it to the sheriff’s department, rather than her legal team, so they couldn’t do anything about it anyway.

The same judge oversaw her trial though, so chances it gets overturned. She indirectly causes someone’s death and won’t have a record for it. Justice.

A quote from your CBS link:

Prosecutors had throughout the trial painted Gutierrez-Reed as careless and irresponsible, with the aim of convincing jurors that her negligence and "willful disregard" for the safety of others ultimately endangered her "Rust" colleagues and caused Hutchins' death. The state sought the maximum prison sentence for Gutierrez-Reed's manslaughter conviction as prosecutors said she appeared not to display any signs of remorse over the fatal incident in court.

Logically speaking, it doesn’t matter how the live rounds got onto the set. What matters was she loaded a gun with a live bullet which killed someone, and it was her responsibility to make sure that didn’t happen.

[feelotraveller]

We will know because she can appeal: https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/14/entertainment/hannah-gutierrez-reed-alec-baldwin-rust/index.html

The dude who gave the bullets in apparently gave it to the sheriff’s department, rather than her legal team, so they couldn’t do anything about it anyway.

The same judge oversaw her trial though, so chances it gets overturned. She indirectly causes someone’s death and won’t have a record for it. Justice.

A quote from your CBS link:

Prosecutors had throughout the trial painted Gutierrez-Reed as careless and irresponsible, with the aim of convincing jurors that her negligence and "willful disregard" for the safety of others ultimately endangered her "Rust" colleagues and caused Hutchins' death. The state sought the maximum prison sentence for Gutierrez-Reed's manslaughter conviction as prosecutors said she appeared not to display any signs of remorse over the fatal incident in court.

Logically speaking, it doesn’t matter how the live rounds got onto the set. What matters was she loaded a gun with a live bullet which killed someone, and it was her responsibility to make sure that didn’t happen.

I don't think we will know because the appeal is for dismissal.  The knowing I was talking about was what the evidence, the bullets from Teske, would have done to the case and whether it would have been 'enough' to change the verdict in Gutirrez's trial.

The issue is not that she did not stuff up.  And if the charge was negligent handling of a firearm I'd be inclined to agree with you.  That's what Hall got for failing to carry out a proper safety inspection (something that both Gutirrez and Baldwin also failed to carry out).  But it was a higher/stronger charge, involuntary manslaughter, which has a greater burden of proof/guilt.  To my mind the prosecution were out for blood, that is convicting someone over the death, driven no doubt the the public circus around the event and they pursued this beyond proper bounds for judicial proceedings - abusive policing, as she wrote.

I could reply to you that for Baldwin what matters is not where the ammo came from but that he fired the gun that killed somone.  The reason I'm not going that route is that despite that being true he was denied prodecural justice, i.e., a fair trial.  (And if he had been given a fair trial I suspect the same higher burden of proof would not have been met.)

While the timing on the day of the verdict for Gutierrez is indeed awkward the prosecution also failed to reveal the evidence when Baldwin's defense team was examining balistic evidence in april, something like a month after they were given the bullets.
https://apnews.com/article/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-hutchins-eb3059c696a9aee5cb86967e27d8f3bb

Prosecutors did get one conviction for Hutchins’ death: Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, the film’s armorer, was sentenced to 18 months in prison on an involuntary manslaughter conviction.

She is appealing, and her attorney Jason Bowles said he would file a motion to dismiss his client’s case on the same basis as Baldwin’s.

Marlowe Sommer put a pause on the trial earlier Friday and sent the jury home so she could hear testimony and arguments on the dismissal motion.

Troy Teske, a retired police officer and a close friend of Gutierrez-Reed’s father Thell Reed, who is a gun coach and armorer on movies, was the person who appeared with the ammunition on the same day the guilty verdict in her case was read.

Teske and the ammunition had been known to authorities since a few weeks after the shooting, but they determined it was not relevant.

The evidence was collected but crucially was not put into the same file as the rest of the “Rust” case, and it was not presented to Baldwin’s team when they examined ballistics evidence in April.

The prosecution stuffed up big time. They have denied the public justice along with those accused.

And back to the original point - exactly the same evidence that could have led to the dismissal of Gutirrez's case only came to light when there was a 'famous rich white guy' on trial.  It's not a big jump to say that she was treated very differently by the legal system even if you put it down merely to access to a better legal team.

[Flying Dice]

The bodycam footage for former Sheriff's Deputy Sean Grayson murdering Sonya Massey in IL is public now, and it confirms exactly why they're holding him without bond for first-degree murder (among other charges). Shitheel had an ego trip and killed her on a whim while responding to her call about a prowler in the neighborhood. Look at the faces on the other cops at the end of the footage, they're all just staring at him while he tries to talk his way out of it.

[nenjin]

I find it bizarre that some seem to think that people with guns pointed at them are going to attack officers with improvised weaponry. If you're completely fucked up on meth/coke/whatever it definitely can happen, and this lady didn't look or act sober at all...but who the fuck stares down the barrel of a gun and decides "imma throw a non-lethal weapon at them."  I've had approximately 8 guns pointed at me by 8 different different officers shouting contradictory commands....and my lizard brain at no time went "I need to defend myself!"

FFS she even started and put her hands up and said sorry. She didn't seem hostile, just irritated that the cops were in her home and were fishing for reasons to stay.

Also look at the fucking tattoos on this guy. Maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't be hiring officers of the peace who are covered in skulls and fantasizing about being the Punisher.

[Flying Dice]

Also listen closely to the dialogue leading up to it. She jokingly says, "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus," with a little laugh, he responds by getting harsher, pulling his gun, and says, "You better not or I'll shoot you right in your fucking face." If there's anyone on drugs there, it's officer Roid Rage, because that microscopic fuse feels like 'roider behavior.

The whole "we were scared for our lives that she was gonna throw the boiling water at us while crouched on the ground ten or fifteen feet away" thing only really came up once they realized they needed an excuse for the shoot. If I thought someone was hiding behind a counter trying to throw boiling water at me... I'd back up and leave. Instead they got closer so they could shoot her. It's genuinely nuts how some cops manage to escalate from casual conversation to death threats and killings for no sane reason. If you think it's a nonsense call with someone who's not all there but not a threat to those around them... fuckin' leave, go to the next call, eat a donut, freebase protein powder, whatever, right?

[EuchreJack]

[posted in wrong topic]

[hector13]

The indictment alleges that Woodbury posted threatening statements that included: "Let's show them what a f------ 'Nazi' … looks like …. It's time to burn these mother f------ down and hang them from trees. Hit them where it f------ hurts. Hit Chris at his home. Make his family fear stepping one foot outside their god damn door."

Woodbury allegedly posted Wray's home address along with the "threatening language," the DOJ said.

…

Woodbury was indicted by a federal grand jury earlier this month on the charges of threats by interstate communications and threats to a federal law enforcement officer. He has not entered a plea to the charges. Online court records did not list any attorney information.

I might suggest someone threatening both him and his family and also posting their home address online is less a crackdown and more a reasonable application of the law.

[EuchreJack]

Dude, you're an idiot. Now the FBI is gonna think YOU said those things in 2025!
..but yes, upon further reflection, I moved it to an more appropriate area.

[dragdeler]

pf

[Great Order]

Also listen closely to the dialogue leading up to it. She jokingly says, "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus," with a little laugh, he responds by getting harsher, pulling his gun, and says, "You better not or I'll shoot you right in your fucking face." If there's anyone on drugs there, it's officer Roid Rage, because that microscopic fuse feels like 'roider behavior.

The whole "we were scared for our lives that she was gonna throw the boiling water at us while crouched on the ground ten or fifteen feet away" thing only really came up once they realized they needed an excuse for the shoot. If I thought someone was hiding behind a counter trying to throw boiling water at me... I'd back up and leave. Instead they got closer so they could shoot her. It's genuinely nuts how some cops manage to escalate from casual conversation to death threats and killings for no sane reason. If you think it's a nonsense call with someone who's not all there but not a threat to those around them... fuckin' leave, go to the next call, eat a donut, freebase protein powder, whatever, right?

People have been saying that the officer probably didn't know what rebuke means and immediately went to "She's threatening me!" because of that.

I can't help but feel the guy was looking for someone to shoot, either out of desire for a power trip or to get his rocks off.

[hector13]

Oh hey abusive policing isn’t just limited to America.

Manchester Airport police officer filmed kicking and stamping on the head of someone who was already restrained face down on the floor.

[Great Order]

Good(ish) news is that the UK's more likely to hold officers to account. Guy's likely to find himself out on his arse and facing charges after that.

Although as ever, how many go unreported?