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[EuchreJack]

DON'T feed cats:
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/17/alabama-women-stray-cats-arrest-food-trap

[hector13]

Before reading the article I was going to say that feeding stray cats is bad because it keeps them round a particular area which can be a danger to them and other tiny wildlife, but they were feeding the cats to catch them and get them neutered, which is to be applauded.

Absolute waste of time and resources.

[Rolan7]

Aw fuck that hits home, a lady used to do that around here.  Had a little cat shelter in the woods nearby, and took each new one to the vet.

She had to stop because we had a wild dog problem for a while.  I'm not subtly implying that cops are similar to wild dogs.
I'm not very subtle at all.

[Cthulhu]

Before reading the article I was going to say that feeding stray cats is bad because it keeps them round a particular area which can be a danger to them and other tiny wildlife, but they were feeding the cats to catch them and get them neutered, which is to be applauded.

Absolute waste of time and resources.

Feeding stray cats is bad but you have to balance any given action against the severity of the response.  Basically the only time I'd consider calling the police on somebody else justified is if said somebody was trying to kill me.

I guess there's some other situations where it's basically unavoidable, like if you're in a car accident or killed someone in self defense or something, but those are weird corner cases and you still never know.

[hector13]

I was arguing that :p

According to the story there were three police vehicles. Even just considering that the cost of arresting them far outweighed the cost of whatever damage the cat (not even the woman herself!) caused, never mind the potential future costs of stray cats breeding, which is what she was trying to stop.

It is an utter waste of time and effort.

[Frumple]

So, uh, there's pretty good odds of (pretty damn earned, at this point) riots in memphis in the near future. Haven't looked hard into it yet, but the gist is that a group of cops beat a man, Tyre Nichols, for something like an hour straight, so badly the injuries killed him a day or three later, and the whole thing got caught on tape. Broke a baton on him, one of the cops kicked him hard enough for the cop to start limping, etc. They tortured and functionally killed a man out in the street, basically.

It's kinda' fractally fucked up, because the initial response from the pigs, was, well... on the face of it, and from what I understand of what was understood at the time it happened, it almost looked good... better than the usual reaction, anyway. Five cops were immediately fired, and were put in jail for murder (they're out on bond now, of course). Like, people were thinking, "Hey, this is almost good, right? This is what should happen at a minimum when cops fucking murder someone."

And then a few days later, the video hits the public and we apparently find out there were 10 cops involved (police apparently lied about that out the gate, from what I've picked up), 6 that were physically involved in the murder and four that were egging them on and encouraging it. Half of them were black.

No bonus points for guessing what color skin the five cops immediately fired and jailed had

[Great Order]

Apparently the union's been suspiciously quiet on it this time too.

[nenjin]

Seemed a little strange that, with how authorities usually react to this stuff, that they were fired and arraigned and it all seemed in a nice tidy bundle.

Frankly anyone at the scene that night is at least guilty of abetting murder. It's not the savagery of the attack that will cause the riots, but the concealment of other police officers who get to walk away from this.

[Duuvian]

Not sure if there will be riots, protests certainly. I would say a riot may be counter productive as the charges and release of footage are differing factor from previous instances. I would argue such riots would stand the chance of being counter-productive in light of charging decisions and release of footage etc as it would be presented as a reason not to accede to public demands, a decision that already has cultural weights against it.

Protests are more than appropriate however. I think a riot in the face of the unusual accountability-from-the-start would be more harmful to the interests of the rioters themselves, making this accountability even less frequent as the standard position of departments and agencies. Essentially, a rioter would appear to be giving justification to their opposition in this instance

As to the 2nd degree murder charges, I've heard the standard is that there must be knowledge that the assault would result in death. This sounds like it would make it more difficult to convict. However I sarcastically say to that argument that I'm sure there is not a plethora of caselaw where citizens are not convicted under 2nd degree after a person is hit in the head and dies. Whether that is the intent of the law when it was written is often moot after prosecutors have managed to stretch statutes interpretation in higher courts.

[scriver]

In US courts, do you have to charge somebody with the correct degree of murder you can prove to begin with, or are the degrees "flexible" in that you can charge somebody for murder and then they get the sentence of the highest "degree" you can prove during the trial?

[Duuvian]

I don't know how it varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but I've heard of lesser included offenses where for example a 1st degree murder charge is not proven to the jury but a 2nd degree murder charge has been. I'm sure the process varies a great deal from place to place and I don't know if TN has that.

However the gap in question here is between 2nd and manslaughter, and I don't know if manslaughter can be considered a lesser included offense because it does not share the intent to murder (or intent harm to point of murder; it seems this too can vary slightly from one body of law to another; generally manslaughter is accidental death caused by another person though how this is determined might vary slightly between different law), if such lesser included offenses are permitted in TN, and how it is interpreted would depend on precedent from either TN upper courts or federal courts. It's a likely issue to be litigated on appeals I would presume so I would be amazed to hear it hasn't been reached either TN's highest court or in the federal system at least the circuit, if the practice is permitted in TN.

EDIT: Check out this pdf
https://www.tncourts.gov/sites/default/files/docs/lesser_list_-mar_20_updates.pdf

EDIT2: Lesser included offenses for 2nd degree murder include reckless homicide and voluntary manslaughter if the March 10, 2020 pdf is still accurate.

[jipehog]

I was arguing that :p

According to the story there were three police vehicles. Even just considering that the cost of arresting them far outweighed the cost of whatever damage the cat (not even the woman herself!) caused, never mind the potential future costs of stray cats breeding, which is what she was trying to stop.

It is an utter waste of time and effort.

Some cost are unavoidable, cops can't choose what calls they respond to. What can be avoided is instigating situation which require wasting police resources in the first place.

The women have been issued a trespass order, but instead of complying and leaving the area, she called "reinforcements" another women who was also issued a trespass order and in the past has challenged the animal control ordinances, and instead of leaving they were trying to argue..

We all get that righteous streak sometimes, but cops aren't the address and repeatedly failing to comply and arguing will just get you slammed.

[Frumple]

Cops choose what calls they respond to all the friggin' time, what are you talking about? It's common as hell they either just ignore shit or slow ball their response so hard the issue has long passed by the time they get there, it's one of the reasons they're remarkably useless in a lot of cases. They generally have significant discretion in choosing to ticket or jail someone or not, too. These are not, even a little, impartial arbiters of the law that are somehow forced by something like that to act.

Regardless, in cases like that, the people instigating the situation that lead to police getting involved wasn't just the pair that was trying to manage basic civil duties the city was failing at, it was also the people issuing trespassing orders against folks literally just trying to help out. Nothing about that situation required wasting police resources.

[Rolan7]

You ever wonder how there are so many professional sovereign citizens who record multiple videos of themselves "educating the cops" and being released?  It's because cops absolutely choose when to show up (hours later, invade your privacy a bit, promise to totally look into it) and especially when to prosecute. 

Turns out cops prefer violently bullying people who don't retaliate with nonsensical yet tedious legal crap.  Yeah sometimes they'll *eventually* smash a car window, but they seem to be learning that that causes paperwork for them personally.  So more and more often they let these drunk dipshits drive free instead.  Coincidentally the sovcit stuff was started by white nationalists.  I saw one of these old white guys threaten "a shootout" over his passport, and they STILL literally let him go on his way after THEY apologized for a while.

Just as a contrast to what they do to acceptable targets, particularly when they think they control the information.

[jipehog]

the people instigating the situation that lead to police getting involved wasn't just the pair that was trying to manage basic civil duties the city was failing at, it was also the people issuing trespassing orders against folks literally just trying to help out. Nothing about that situation required wasting police resources.

I don't know what they were trying todo, I know that the police asked them to stop doing it, and leave or face criminals charges on several occasions. Generally the next step would be to contact the police department to clarify thing to avoid further inconvenience, or failing that try to change city animal control ordinances. Instead they choose to keep at it and argue and faced the consequences.

Ordinance vary from community to community (here this is handled by the city inspectors not the police) and communication is important (e.g. to avoid people trying to help by calling about weirdos caging cats for unknown reason, or leaving food against agreed upon law) because at the end of that path are people taking the law into their own hands doing what they believe is right.

You ever wonder how there are so many professional sovereign citizens who record multiple videos of themselves "educating the cops" and being released?

That is definitely a USA thing, and from what I seen with few exceptions most are opportunistic losers, I would strongly encourage not to be confrontational trying to educate anyone who has much sway over you, cops least of all (better write a letter after the fact), and if you do or choose to make an act of civil disobedience be prepared to pay the price.