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Author Topic: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice  (Read 442319 times)

Maximum Spin

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3825 on: August 26, 2020, 05:26:55 pm »

I mean, we don't know that? It was a mainly social media organized group of people, and the militia movement has some notable links to white supremacist elements in places. I don't think *this guy* was, but the language the group was throwing around on social media suggests some were present.
I mean, you don't know that, but I have local contacts. :P You don't have to believe me or anything, I'm just saying a thing.
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SalmonGod

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3826 on: August 26, 2020, 09:44:12 pm »

And if you're close enough to grab someone's shirt, you're close enough to restrain them non-lethally.
Gonna be honest, that sounds a lot like the opinion of someone who hasn't tried.

High school wrestler here.  Was stopping a suicide attempt once and the person turned their knife against me.  I caught their wrist and wrestled the knife from them without anyone getting hurt.  So here's one who's tried and succeeded.  And I'd do it again.  I know that's not directly comparable to the kinds of hostility and danger an officer may theoretically face.  But I wasn't exactly wearing body armor or trained to the extent that a police officer is, either.

And as Frumple noted, there are other professionals who restrain violent individuals all the time.  I have a friend who has worked at in-patient facilities for low-functioning young adults.  I have a sister who's a nurse.  They cope with unstable people having violent episodes, and lethal force is never on the table for them.

There's reasonable limits to ensuring one's own safety in interacting with others.  In any interaction with another human being, it is possible to rationalize that the other could be lethally dangerous to me in some manner.  Any time I go out in public, I come into proximity with great numbers of people that I know nothing about.  Even where people I know are concerned, anyone can have unexpected episodes of sudden instability.  Anyone in any situation is capable of doing something lethal by any number of means.  If this means that the correct and safe course of action is to shoot them because there is the theoretical possibility that danger could be real, that translates into a world where everyone kills everyone else all the time just to be safe.  A world where society is flat out not possible.  Yet this is the type of rhetoric you hear from *someone* every time there is a police shooting.  You'd think the point trying to be made is that I should murder everyone I meet every time I leave the house to make sure I get back home safely.

I mean, we don't know that? It was a mainly social media organized group of people, and the militia movement has some notable links to white supremacist elements in places. I don't think *this guy* was, but the language the group was throwing around on social media suggests some were present.
I mean, you don't know that, but I have local contacts. :P You don't have to believe me or anything, I'm just saying a thing.

Even if I believe that the militia groups involved have no white supremacist elements to them, it's still extremely problematic that the police are looking at these people and going "Oh hey yeah you guys look very prepared to engage in some real shooting warfare - how about you help us out with these protesters?  We appreciate you randomly showing up kitted out in excessive amounts of lethal urban combat gear with no motive known to us other than to volunteer out of the goodness of your hearts to help us ensure no one is harmed at this event."
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Doomblade187

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3827 on: August 26, 2020, 10:40:00 pm »

Protest food group Riot Kitchen's bus staff were arrested from their minivan by police/feds for no clear reason, kidnapped into unmarked vehicles. (They were originally working in Portland, were moving down to Kenosha to volunteer, where they were arrested)

https://twitter.com/riotkitchen206/status/1298799200319074304
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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3828 on: August 26, 2020, 10:43:35 pm »

It begins!   
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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3829 on: August 27, 2020, 10:48:45 am »

The obvious reason is to scare people from giving aid to the 'rioters / looters'.  It may seem arbitrary and it may well be in who exactly they scrape up, but the purpose behind the action is clear.

Is not like they have any obligation to tell anyone why they throw anyone in holding cells for 24 hours.
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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3830 on: August 27, 2020, 12:29:44 pm »

Is not like they have any obligation to tell anyone why they throw anyone in holding cells for 24 hours.

Legally they are, but we're long past expecting the law to be enforced.
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voliol

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3831 on: August 27, 2020, 12:59:35 pm »

If states excerting force against their own population wasn’t such a well-established exception to the rule, this would be a textbook case of terrorism.

Quote from: Merriam-Webster
the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrorism#learn-more
Quote from: Oxford
The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
https://www.lexico.com/definition/terrorism
Quote from: Cambridge
(threats of) violent action for political purposes
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/terrorism?q=Terrorism

Cthulhu

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3832 on: August 31, 2020, 12:36:55 pm »

So it seems to be escalating.  The Kyle Incident is the perfect shitshow because any random hundred people will have a hundred different reasons to be angry about it and they're all understandable and justified.  If literally any one of the people, from Kyle to his family to the police to the people chasing him, had stopped and said "wait a second, let's not do this" things would not have been such a shitshow.

Also interesting is that everyone involved in the past two shootings except for Kyle himself has some kind of violent legal trouble on their record, if not full-on felony convictions.  That also goes for the shooter and victim in the Patriot Prayer shooting (between the five of them, domestic abuse, sexual assault of a minor, and a big pile of minor offenses including some firearms stuff).  Going by some of the videos and classmate anecdotes that have come up afterward, Kyle was also a generally violent person, just too young to have himself a record yet.  Dunno what the full implications are there, aside from further confirming Lonnie Athens was right and violent crime is the exclusive purview of violent people (Sounds obvious when you put it like that, but how many times have you heard about violent criminals who "just snapped" and "seemed like a regular guy?"  That never happens, there's always something behind the curtain.)

It also suggests something about the idea I've seen going around that Kyle was brain-poisoned by Trump and memed into ruining his own life.  Both of those things are true of course, but from what I've read Kyle was already known for constantly trying to start fights for various reasons, and there's a video of him sucker punching a woman.  He was already on his way.

It does reassure a bit that we haven't crossed some rubicon towards civil war.  Serious violence at the protests is still the domain of people who were already predisposed to violence with or without the political context. 
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 12:38:44 pm by Cthulhu »
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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3833 on: September 01, 2020, 07:07:08 am »

Sheriffs in LA shoot a black man ‘cause he was riding a bike and dropped a gun.

Best quote:

Quote
Sheriff’s Lt. Brandon Dean said Monday evening that two deputies from the South Los Angeles station were driving on Budlong Avenue when they spotted a man riding his bicycle in violation of vehicle codes. Dean said he didn’t know which vehicle codes the man allegedly broke.

Probably “riding a bicycle as a black man”, lieutenant.
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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3834 on: September 01, 2020, 08:16:54 am »

I'd love to see the report that says "violated vehicle codes [note to self, figure out which one later]".

Last night, friends in Kenosha got a text warning them to stay inside from 7 to 7 due to civil unrest. I haven't heard anything else because my friends who got that followed it. National Guard were not present, as far as I know.

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3835 on: September 01, 2020, 09:23:03 am »

I'd love to see the report that says "violated vehicle codes [note to self, figure out which one later]".

Last night, friends in Kenosha got a text warning them to stay inside from 7 to 7 due to civil unrest. I haven't heard anything else because my friends who got that followed it. National Guard were not present, as far as I know.

I'm sure the sheriff is making things better. Remember when you said we need to get rid of all black people, and it didn't affect his job in any way?


Sheriffs in LA shoot a black man ‘cause he was riding a bike and dropped a gun.

Best quote:

Quote
Sheriff’s Lt. Brandon Dean said Monday evening that two deputies from the South Los Angeles station were driving on Budlong Avenue when they spotted a man riding his bicycle in violation of vehicle codes. Dean said he didn’t know which vehicle codes the man allegedly broke.

Probably “riding a bicycle as a black man”, lieutenant.

This LA is allowing that? The same LA that is claiming having a shield to protect yourself is illegal now, despite it not being against the law and having real strong "The steps you take to protect yourself from the violence I perpetrate against you are the evidence that you deserve that violence" energy? *Shock*
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voliol

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3836 on: September 01, 2020, 09:28:48 am »

I'd love to see the report that says "violated vehicle codes [note to self, figure out which one later]".

Last night, friends in Kenosha got a text warning them to stay inside from 7 to 7 due to civil unrest. I haven't heard anything else because my friends who got that followed it. National Guard were not present, as far as I know.

A text from whom? The Kenosha police department? It sounds like somehing they (or the feds) would send out and use as an excuse to kidnap/attack anyone not following the warning.

delphonso

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3837 on: September 01, 2020, 09:40:29 am »

Part of IPAWS, which I know basically nothing about as far as operations go.

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3838 on: September 12, 2020, 06:05:59 pm »

I had a nice call with my brother about me coming over tomorrow to help him move, and he closed by mentioning he was off to watch a Destiny stream about [the teen who gunned down several BLM protesters and walked away past cops].  We don't see eye-to-eye about BLM, so when he clarified who he was talking about (I didn't memorize the murderer's name) I jokingly tried to end the conversation rather than start another argument. 

His last word was that he agreed that it was technically illegal due to carrying the gun against state lines "that he didn't know was illegal", but that it was "self defense" against the protesters "charging him".
So that's going to be fun tomorrow.

Wouldn't be worth mentioning, same old regurgitated anti-BLM shit from someone who's otherwise an ally.  But shortly after I happened to hear the kind of shit Destiny has been saying about this:
Quote from: Destiny
The rioting needs to fucking stop.  And if that means like white redneck f'in militia dudes out there mowing down dipshit protesters who think that they can torch buildings at 10 PM, at this point they have my fucking blessing.

Comments for which Destiny lost his Twitch partnership for, to my pleasant surprise.  But that just means I get to listen about "censorship" and "cancel culture" tomorrow on top of it all.

Venting here because I need to get it out of my system so I can survive a long car ride tomorrow.  I can't believe my brother is going to stan this shit.  I can't believe *I* was Destiny's target audience, a socially progressive liberal with faith in the economy.  Goes to show how poisonous that shit is.

The moment protests threaten the bottom line, all progressive ideas go out the window and violence is sanctioned.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #3839 on: September 12, 2020, 06:21:39 pm »

That's liberals for you. Destiny's pivot into fascism (or at least into a clone of Tim Poole) has been happening for a while now.
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