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[Bauglir]

I think the fact that he might be innocent and forced to resign is a bad outcome, and I think the fact that he might be guilty and he's only being forced to resign is also a bad outcome. I also think that the argument you're making around the first statement is pretty dishonest. I mean, you can make all the disclaimers you like, but you're trying to drag the discussion into being about mob justice and witch hunts. Those aren't the problem! If the actual legal system did its job, we wouldn't be in this position in the first place, but when they abdicate, the mob is all we have left.

But yeah, cameras would be great, if they were ever widely adopted and if footage didn't mysteriously disappear whenever things get suspicious.

[Baffler]

No. But what other recourse do they really have?

[Levi]

...I'd honestly say that this isn't even recourse- it's making their movement ridiculous.

I think its a good way to show their level of anger and frustration.  Economic damage is probably the best way to get the governments attention.  They may not care about people, but they do care about money.

[RanDomino]

...I'd honestly say that this isn't even recourse- it's making their movement ridiculous.

The legal system is ridiculous.
But I agree in that their unclear strategic goals aren't helping anything.  Perhaps what they should do is something like declare that police are no longer allowed in these neighborhoods, all homes and apartments in Ferguson are now property of their residents and tenants, all rent and debts of Ferguson residents are nullified, and then dare the police to evict everyone.  A little trickier to pull off, of course.

[SalmonGod]

...I'd honestly say that this isn't even recourse- it's making their movement ridiculous.

The legal system is ridiculous.
But I agree in that their unclear strategic goals aren't helping anything.  Perhaps what they should do is something like declare that police are no longer allowed in these neighborhoods, all homes and apartments in Ferguson are now property of their residents and tenants, all rent and debts of Ferguson residents are nullified, and then dare the police to evict everyone.  A little trickier to pull off, of course.

I would actually expect this to provoke more violence from the police than rioting.

[Moghjubar]

I see the whole "resign without severance" thing, when combined along with the grand-jury get-off-without-trial thing more or less Ferguson trying to have their cake and eat it too. 

Didn't want to try a police officer... but trying not to piss off the community (any more).  Sigh.  If someone isn't guilty... or in this case not even put thru to trial, they get all the benefits of society: work, or if they are forced to resign, whatever severance, etc.  If not (and I think he probably was in the wrong, to at least voluntary manslaughter), they go to trial, no blue wall bullshit.  Option A was picked, give him his damn severance (and anything he got from other sources doesn't count) and accept the shitstorm.

[RanDomino]

I would actually expect this to provoke more violence from the police than rioting.

Yes but it might be more widely popular.  Cops are always going to be violent.  Letting them dictate our actions is just letting the terrorists win.

[penguinofhonor]

.

[palsch]

The other thing to note here are the vast number of peaceful protests happening in dozens of cities, even in other countries. But outside a few brief stories and occasional local coverage of the events, they get largely ignored.

For protests to be noticed they must do something that lets them be condemned, by either causing serious disruptions or by seizing control of some visible channel that they aren't seen as having a right to. Take the football players the police wanted censured for putting their hands up. Or the reactions to the #stoptheparade attempts to disrupt the Macy's Day parade.

To paraphrase something I heard elsewhere, people want the wronged party to protest in a way that can be safely ignored, and doing otherwise means they go from wronged to wrong and can be condemned and dismissed.


Regarding his resignation, there was no earthly way the man could have ever policed that community again. Even ignoring the public reaction, his statements in his interviews made him unfit to be an officer in that town. Showing zero remorse after even a justified killing (for the sake of argument) would be disqualifying in my eyes, but going to on dismiss and condemn the entire community shows a contempt for his role in it that was simply disgusting.

[Baffler]

He wouldn't last a week on patrol either. Half of Ferguson would probably put a bullet in him given the chance, and more if they can manage it.

...I'd honestly say that this isn't even recourse- it's making their movement ridiculous.

The legal system is ridiculous.
But I agree in that their unclear strategic goals aren't helping anything.  Perhaps what they should do is something like declare that police are no longer allowed in these neighborhoods, all homes and apartments in Ferguson are now property of their residents and tenants, all rent and debts of Ferguson residents are nullified, and then dare the police to evict everyone.  A little trickier to pull off, of course.

I would actually expect this to provoke more violence from the police than rioting.

You have to admit though, it's a really good strategy if they're willing to get beaten up to get a shit show going.

[TamerVirus]

New York's got the grand jury decision for the Eric Garner case coming down in a few days.

Whatever happens, there's surely gonna be a big response

[Helgoland]

...I'd honestly say that this isn't even recourse- it's making their movement ridiculous.

The legal system is ridiculous.
But I agree in that their unclear strategic goals aren't helping anything.  Perhaps what they should do is something like declare that police are no longer allowed in these neighborhoods, all homes and apartments in Ferguson are now property of their residents and tenants, all rent and debts of Ferguson residents are nullified, and then dare the police to evict everyone.  A little trickier to pull off, of course.

I would actually expect this to provoke more violence from the police than rioting.

And rightly so! You'd be taking away large amounts of property from people who have jack shit to do with the whole situation. It's ideas like this that discredit moderate leftist ideas, you know? It's now bad to have them, but it's very bad not to have the common sense to immediately recognize its glaring flaws.

I would actually expect this to provoke more violence from the police than rioting.

Yes but it might be more widely popular.  Cops are always going to be violent.  Letting them dictate our actions is just letting the terrorists win.

You can probably tell from the above, but right now I sympathize with the protesters. Not with the looters, but with those who remain peaceful and still work towards eliminating racism in America's law enforcement. If they pulled shit like that, I'd condone most anything short of military action. And I'm the kind of guy that the movement needs to convince - progressive, but fairly moderate, and without too strong an opinion.
Read your sentence again. Do you seriously claim that all law enforcement agents are terrorist? You sound like a strawman anarchist. To be fair, many true anarchists sound like that as well, but that's no reason to talk like that as well.

[Phmcw]

I grew up in Birmingham, Alabama. Some very, very good friends of mine were killed by bombs, bombs that were planted by racists. I remember, form the time I was very small, I remember the sounds of bombs exploding across the street. Our house shaking. I remember my father having to have guns at his disposal at all times, because of the fact that, at any moment, we might expect to be attacked. The man who was, at that time, in complete control of the city government, his name was Bull Connor, would often get on the radio and make statements like, “niggers have moved into a white neighborhood. We better expect some bloodshed tonight.” And sure enough, there would be bloodshed.

So what?

My grandmother lived through both world war should we resent the "Germans" who invaded our country unprovoqued twice?

That’s why, when someone asks me about violence, I just, I just find it incredible. Because what it means is that the person who’s asking that question has absolutely no idea what black people have gone through, what black people have experienced in this country since the time the first black person was kidnapped from the shores of Africa.

And that show that this lady have no idea of what she's talking about. Thread lightly when you talk about violence. Thread very lightly, because you'll either find your "peoples" putting other peoples into mass graves, or be put into those, and faster than you think. It happend countless times and will happen again.

[Willfor]

Speaking of strawman anarchists, several in-real-life examples of them have been showing up to many protests and looting sessions. These generally white and generally angry young generally men have been stirring up all kinds of non-general violent and destructive shit in the name of the cause. It makes generalizing the looters very difficult considering some of them don't even live in Ferguson to begin with.

[TamerVirus]

Um, quick poll. Who here is actually black?