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[Loud Whispers]

>handing the gun back
ayyyyyyyyy

[Rolan7]

Not defending her, she was well in control of the situation and shouldn't have felt that threatened to begin with (she was in a lit hallway and saw that the door was already opened. From that point, she put herself in danger by going in alone and not calling the cops, which is coincidentally the complete opposite of what the police advise in the event of a suspected intruder). But drilled reactions are drilled reactions.


As for the door locking/unlocking thing, I must have forgotten about that from the article. I figured she must have just opened the door and gone in (meaning that she was comfortable with "her" door being unlocked) before getting startled by the strange man in her apartment... Because seeing that the door was open and then just going inside to get "spooked" is fucking stupid.

According to her affidavit, she didn't seem to notice it was ajar (at least at first):

The door was slightly ajar as she tried to use her key, which has an electronic chip, to enter. When she was able to open the door, she saw the interior

That's just her account, of course.  But if true, her key appeared to work (indicator LEDs aside, the door "opened") "confirming" it as her apartment.  And she really wouldn't expect an intruder beyond a door she just "unlocked".

[Reelya]

Not defending her, she was well in control of the situation and shouldn't have felt that threatened to begin with (she was in a lit hallway and saw that the door was already opened. From that point, she put herself in danger by going in alone and not calling the cops, which is coincidentally the complete opposite of what the police advise in the event of a suspected intruder). But drilled reactions are drilled reactions.


As for the door locking/unlocking thing, I must have forgotten about that from the article. I figured she must have just opened the door and gone in (meaning that she was comfortable with "her" door being unlocked) before getting startled by the strange man in her apartment... Because seeing that the door was open and then just going inside to get "spooked" is fucking stupid.

Sure, but let's go back to sources here:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/botham-jean-shooting-dallas-police-officer-amber-guyger-family-attorney-disputes-account/

Guyger says her door was "ajar" and saw a "large silhouette" inside. After giving "verbal commands that were ignored," she fired her handgun twice, striking Jean once in the torso. It wasn't until Guyger "turned on the ... lights" and "called 911" that she realized she was "at the wrong apartment."

That's her version. He was just ... standing in the hallway of his apartment, with the front door ajar, and no lights on, and refused a uniformed police officer's command from a lit corridor outside. However, this means she must also have managed to hit a target in the dark from quite some distance. The bullet forensics will probably clear that up.

Attorneys for Jean's family say two witnesses told them details that contradict Guyger's account.

"They heard knocking down the hallway followed by a woman's voice that they believe to be officer Guyger saying, 'Let me in. Let me in,'" attorney Lee Merritt said.

The family's attorneys say one of the witnesses then heard gunshots followed by a man's voice.

"What we believe to be the last words of Botham Jean which was 'Oh my god, why did you do that?'" Merritt said.

This is the more likely scenario. She's come home, her key isn't working, she gets confused, but she can hear sounds from inside the apartment. There's someone in her apartment! Then she bangs on the door loudly asking to be let in, so he answers the door wondering who the hell ... he sees a police officer, and she sees a black man, and while he's about to speak, wondering what the hell is up, she freaks out, pulls her gun and shoots him twice in the chest.

[Max™]

I already said I have an abnormal fear response

Sure

Who are you again?

I get angry and attack things that frighten me, why would I lie about this?

[smjjames]

I already said I have an abnormal fear response,

I wouldn't call it an abnormal response, it's called the 'fight or flight' response for a reason. Sure, it may be abnormal depending on the situation, but hey, the amygilda doesn't give a damn what the correct response is.

[Max™]

True, but my real point is that a cop should never be allowed to get away with "I was afraid" if they weren't literally dealing with like, escaped tigers and shotgun wielding psychopaths riding them.

[hector13]

For all she knew Siegfried and Roy had set up shop in her front room, and Roy had done an Ash and replaced an arm with a chainsaw.

[SalmonGod]

I already said I have an abnormal fear response,

I wouldn't call it an abnormal response, it's called the 'fight or flight' response for a reason. Sure, it may be abnormal depending on the situation, but hey, the amygilda doesn't give a damn what the correct response is.

People who are required to face dangerous situations involving other human beings as part of their professional duties should be trained to suppress fight or flight response and always act deliberately.  Otherwise, they are a danger to the public.  Police training currently seems like it encourages fight or flight response.

[Egan_BW]

Problem being that for the majority of people, it's hard to kill another person as a deliberate action. Meaning that I suppose "doing policework" and "doing gunfights" need to be separate jobs. Trying to pack both into the same person leads to Bad Things.

[Max™]

Yeah, I have no reflex of "draw, double tap center mass, blame it on being scared" at all.

[RedKing]

Just want to point out that in the SAME city where cops today took down a white active shooter with a fucking AR-15 going on a rampage (and having already shot 3 cops)  with only minimal damage to the perp (already listed in fair condition at local hospital) -- in June in that same city, an officer gunned down an unarmed 17-year old black male for running away from a traffic stop. Because he "might" be armed.

But please, tell me some more about how race isn't a factor in police response. 

[Egan_BW]

That's fairly terrifying in its implications, but equally anecdotal. The terrorist was indeed shot at and wounded by police, so it's possible that they aimed to kill but he just managed to survive anyway. Humans can take an unpredictable amount of damage before dying.

One thing is that it seems likely that he was rushed to the hospital as quickly as possible after being incapacitated, while innocent victims of police shootings are often left to bleed to death on the ground.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Given the preponderance of neo-nazis among the police, it's entirely possible that the responding truly wanted to save the life of one of "their guys", but most likely falls to the simple favor of whites and lack of moral outrage at right-wing terror keeping them in "act like I'm supposed to" mode.

[Reelya]

That seems a bit of a stretch. "preponderance" means "bulk, generality, lion's share, majority, mass". So you're saying most USA police are literal Adolf Hitler worshippers? I don't think we should be throwing terms like Neo-Nazi around willy nilly because they lose all meaning, and the paradoxical effect is to make actual Nazis blend in better, since if the far left calls just about everyone Nazis because they don't agree with them, then the right can start saying things like "if they call you a Nazi you know you're doing something right". Nazi then just becomes a word that only means the far-left doesn't like you.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Stop pretending to not know what I mean because of your obsession with beating people to death with dictionaries. Just because you'll never be captured doesn't mean it has to extend to posting.

The frequency of neo-Nazis in the US police force has been reported on for years now. There have been entire internal cliques investigated, complete with member tattoos. And of course, we can hardly neglect to include the number of cops who don't throw the salute but have Nazi style beliefs in all other respects, or whom collaborate with Nazi groups.

Direct any semantic arguments about the differences between neo-Nazis and other white supremacists to a liberal who cares.