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Author Topic: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice  (Read 444669 times)

Kagus

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #2370 on: May 03, 2018, 04:21:34 am »

Thing is, if the incel dude gets laid because of the hype, he'll suddenly lose all credibility.

I know "credibility" is an odd word to use in this context, but you get what I mean...

Loud Whispers

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #2371 on: May 03, 2018, 06:22:02 am »

Thing is, if the incel dude gets laid because of the hype, he'll suddenly lose all credibility.

I know "credibility" is an odd word to use in this context, but you get what I mean...
Unless it turns into another sexual fan club convinced he's just misunderstood or victimized by the world, offsetting his loss of credibility with robots with misplaced sympathy from adoring fans, look at the mass murderers in the US who survived their mass murderings - getting lewd pictures, money donations, love letters sent to their prison thereafter. Shit's pretty dodge

Kagus

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #2372 on: May 03, 2018, 06:28:44 am »

I mean, if the guy whose whole terrorist ticket was "sex is a shameful and repulsive tool used by a corrupt society to punish and control the weak" gets laid, it kinda fucks with his whole mission statement, y'know?

Like if some dude from ISIS decries the blasphemy and degeneracy of the west and then takes a bath in bacon grease.

Loud Whispers

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #2373 on: May 03, 2018, 06:56:02 am »

I mean, if the guy whose whole terrorist ticket was "sex is a shameful and repulsive tool used by a corrupt society to punish and control the weak" gets laid, it kinda fucks with his whole mission statement, y'know?

Like if some dude from ISIS decries the blasphemy and degeneracy of the west and then takes a bath in bacon grease.
Loadsa ISIS fellas decried the blasphemy and degeneracy of the West then went to the East to kill pious Sunnis and build their own harems. Hypocrisy always floats the goat somewhere

Regarding incel rebellion, I see them very much as a continuation of the beta uprising. After asking the robots why they were so fucking livid all the time, they told me to kill myself, but then they told me it wasn't because they were virgins, cos if that's all their problem was they could just have sex with a prostitute and carry on with their lives. It's more they've started off on the wrong foot with autism, social retardation and getting ludicrously lost in their own irony, that they are completely dislocated from society in being able to form meaningful sexual or romantic relationships with others. This is similar to the trend in Japan where loads of their young are having no sex whatsoever, being replicated in the West, where a few people are hypersexual, incel, and the normally adjusted folk rest in between. Thus I'm 99% sure an incel having regular sex would remain an incel, as its origins lie in a total absence of self-confidence and self-esteem.

In short, they are not products of higher ambitions politically or religiously, but lower on the hierarchy of needs, they are products of the behavioural sink

smjjames

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #2374 on: May 03, 2018, 08:20:33 am »

Isn't the behavioral sink stuff somewhat discredited since humans are way more complex than mice? Not to mention that we've been living in crowded cities for thousands of years and none of those collapsed just from being crowded socially.
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JoshuaFH

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #2375 on: May 03, 2018, 08:26:27 am »

The Rat Utopia was kinda a crackpot crazy experiment anyway, that's too unethical to replicate.
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smjjames

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #2376 on: May 03, 2018, 08:45:49 am »

The Rat Utopia was kinda a crackpot crazy experiment anyway, that's too unethical to replicate.

Yeah, the ethics (not to mention potential legal problems) of that means that it can't be directly replicated, but people can still be asked questions.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #2377 on: May 03, 2018, 08:58:23 am »

Isn't the behavioral sink stuff somewhat discredited since humans are way more complex than mice? Not to mention that we've been living in crowded cities for thousands of years and none of those collapsed just from being crowded socially.
And yet, we have incel neets who live in their own self-imposed isolation, bonding over their shared hatred of normies, now using it as justification to carry out real attacks? We've got neets who need to be shown videos of people looking at them, because eye-contact triggers panic attacks in them? We've got loadsa young people who should be in their prime, instead squaring themselves off in rooms waiting to die? Welcome to neo-Tokyo fam, where reality is a crazy experiment, because social engineers have control of the reigns

smjjames

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #2378 on: May 03, 2018, 09:04:17 am »

Isn't the behavioral sink stuff somewhat discredited since humans are way more complex than mice? Not to mention that we've been living in crowded cities for thousands of years and none of those collapsed just from being crowded socially.
And yet, we have incel neets who live in their own self-imposed isolation, bonding over their shared hatred of normies, now using it as justification to carry out real attacks? We've got neets who need to be shown videos of people looking at them, because eye-contact triggers panic attacks in them? We've got loadsa young people who should be in their prime, instead squaring themselves off in rooms waiting to die? Welcome to neo-Tokyo fam, where reality is a crazy experiment, because social engineers have control of the reigns

Maybe they've always existed? We can't take a time machine and look whether such people did exist and it's not some new phenomenon.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #2379 on: May 03, 2018, 09:18:03 am »

Maybe they've always existed? We can't take a time machine and look whether such people did exist and it's not some new phenomenon.
We can look at historical literature m8 and look to the beta phenomenon to see precisely when it appeared today, not least to say the neet, the herbivore man, the incel has been well-documented by such governments as the UK, Japan and USA, so that's wrong. I've seen critique of the behavioural sink as misattributing the consequences to density of population, and I'd certainly argue that simple comparison between Western cities and Indian countrysides proves density is not the only factor, but this is all rather trite m9

Loud Whispers

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #2380 on: May 03, 2018, 04:49:21 pm »

Ultimately I'm on the side that thinks that the behavior you're describing isn't a consequence of population. It's a consequence of communication. In a sense, overpopulation could also breed the same behavior, since a sheer volume of people in close proximity also ups communication, but it's not the direct cause.

It's not that these people are in any way new; they just never had a means to coalesce. The problem is simply our necessity for social interaction, and... ultimately, tribalism. When communication is so easy, it's just as easy to shut out dissenting opinion and create a feedback loop of extremism that leads to people dying. Incels or ISIS, the mechanism is the same. There are consequences to free communication with any individual across the globe.
Yet the sources of Incels and ISIS differ; the latter can be traced to its religion, the former to the sexual revolution, with the result being that both attract different people with different ambitions who form different connections, with the only similarity between them is that they violently resent their home nation. The differences are important, ISIS for example is an organized group, incels are a phenomenon. For ideological causes like ISIS, communication echo chambers is a factor, but not I think the cause, and certainly not so for incels. Shutting down free communication and imposing restrictive and retributive controls upon expression will not work, and can already be observed in such nations as China which deals with both islamist insurgencies and extreme social isolation within densely populated urban centres despite its sophisticated controls on online communication. In the case of extreme social isolation, I am a firm believer that you must be holistic in all possible causes, taking into account everything - from city planning to societal structure, in order to understand why these people end up in their thirties having never made a friend in the last two decades. These people are new

JoshuaFH

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #2381 on: May 03, 2018, 05:15:29 pm »

Ultimately I'm on the side that thinks that the behavior you're describing isn't a consequence of population. It's a consequence of communication. In a sense, overpopulation could also breed the same behavior, since a sheer volume of people in close proximity also ups communication, but it's not the direct cause.

It's not that these people are in any way new; they just never had a means to coalesce. The problem is simply our necessity for social interaction, and... ultimately, tribalism. When communication is so easy, it's just as easy to shut out dissenting opinion and create a feedback loop of extremism that leads to people dying. Incels or ISIS, the mechanism is the same. There are consequences to free communication with any individual across the globe.
Yet the sources of Incels and ISIS differ; the latter can be traced to its religion, the former to the sexual revolution, with the result being that both attract different people with different ambitions who form different connections, with the only similarity between them is that they violently resent their home nation. The differences are important, ISIS for example is an organized group, incels are a phenomenon. For ideological causes like ISIS, communication echo chambers is a factor, but not I think the cause, and certainly not so for incels. Shutting down free communication and imposing restrictive and retributive controls upon expression will not work, and can already be observed in such nations as China which deals with both islamist insurgencies and extreme social isolation within densely populated urban centres despite its sophisticated controls on online communication. In the case of extreme social isolation, I am a firm believer that you must be holistic in all possible causes, taking into account everything - from city planning to societal structure, in order to understand why these people end up in their thirties having never made a friend in the last two decades. These people are new

Referring back to the Rat Utopia experiment, what caused the rat's problems probably wasn't the overpopulation, but rather that the nesting, mothering, and overall rearing of young mice was disrupted at every stage due to that overpopulation. This resulted in mice that were born, neglected, and grew up socially and emotionally deranged. I think this must have resulted in a negative feedback loop where, over generations, the deranged mice are worse parents, who produce even more deranged children, who wind up being even worse parents, and so on and so forth, until the tiny rat city is inescapably trapped in a cycle it can't break out of.

To try to draw the analogy over to real life, there's the rapid urbanization that society went through 100 years ago during the advent of the great depression and WW2. This instigated a drastic cultural shift, where most families no longer lived on farms, husbands worked long hours away from home and not with their sons, and young boys are mostly raised by women both at home and in school by the teachers who are predominantly women. I'm pulling this idea from the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover, but the thought is that young men don't receive the proper fathering they need, and so they wind up being less secure and more confused in their own masculinity, and therefore less confident, and therefore more estranged from the society they live in, which all in all means they wind up being worse fathers themselves, and so on and so forth.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 05:59:15 pm by JoshuaFH »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #2382 on: May 03, 2018, 06:07:08 pm »

To try to draw the analogy over to real life, there's the rapid urbanization that society went through 100 years ago during the advent of the great depression and WW2. This instigated a drastic cultural shift, where most families no longer lived on farms, husbands worked long hours away from home and not with their sons, and young boys are mostly raised by women both at home and in school by the teachers who are predominantly women. I'm pulling this idea from the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover, but the thought is that young men don't receive the proper fathering they need, and so they wind up being less secure and more confused in their own masculinity, and therefore less confident, and therefore more estranged from the society they live in, which all in all means they wind up being worse fathers themselves, and so on and so forth.

So, in other words, it's Hitler's fault.
For the USA, the rapid urbanization begins after the Russian revolution and WWI, as the turmoils in Eastern & Southern Europe, Eastern Asia and the advent of steamships regularly ferrying people from the old world to the new world - certainly before Hitler's rise to power, while most other countries experienced this urbanization into truly modern cities as early as the 17th century with all its attendant changes to the social unit in society. I also do not like this focus for it does not factor in where generations had the previous generation of fathers wiped out and turned out fine, while further implying that sons raised by mothers and female teachers will be insecure because their expectations of masculinity cannot be taught by women; despite the expectations being mostly societal, or instinctive. Likewise while kids from single mother households on average experience greater incidents of mental illness or anguish in life, that most will turn out all right despite the total absence of a father must surely show that this is an incredibly important factor, but not the deciding factor, especially considering how they number hundreds of thousands in the UK, millions in USA and Europe and hundreds of thousands in Japan. You also don't have to look too far on any online platform like reddit, facebook or imgur to find people who regularly go on about how they're barely functioning in life. My own theory:

-Total breakdown of the extended family in both Western and Eastern civilizations, all care of children and elderly falls to the state.
-The state is not an adequate substitute, if it is not the state of a nation which has also transferred this assumed responsibility to the private sector.
-Generational contempt for young people, levying all future consequences of debt, energy, poor personal development prospects and foreign policy as issues for future generations to suffer. Aka Boomers
-Economic cost of raising a family has gone from 1 parent working to support husband, wife and 8 kids, to two partners working full time just to pay off their student debts; if both partners are willing to even form a relationship.
-Young people are hypersocialized from the earliest age, with kids raised from babyhood to adulthood on smartphones and social media, do not learn how to interact with other people in the real world. I've seen this all too disappointingly much, where kids I'd seen take their first steps reached the point where they learned from the internet and stopped being able to interact with one another.
-Young people are hypersexualized from the earliest age, with kids raised from childhood to adulthood on pornography whilst they are maturing, leading to porn addictions, desensitization to all but the most decadent and obscure fetishes, addiction to viagra and parents either apathetic, clueless or encouraging of this. Shit's absolutely buggered
-Loss of purpose in all previous cultural, religious and economic milestones which granted senses of worth for ordinary individuals; new ones have not emerged to replace them in an age where cultures are sold or destroyed by previous generations or held in contempt by their current holders, religions diverging between their suicidal and their zealous sects, and economic milestones like embarking upon a prestigious career or owning a home unreachable or too costly to pursue. Careers like becoming a doctor or nurse for example, previous generations in the UK were paid to train, now young people pay to train and then do years of punishing labour with low pay; it is hard for them to be proud of the service they devote their lives to in such conditions.
-Biological clocks and the way our societies encourage tinder match-making and sexual experimenting at University until the 30s narrows unnecessary narrows potential pairs, as men in general always select downwards in age, while the recent phenomena of women pursuing higher education at far higher rates at men creates a dating gap when their general preference is for intellectually equal partners.
-Urban planning, cosmopolitanism and increasing urbanization, turning urban cities into megacities. This can be easily observed in the megacities like London, New York and Tokyo, where millions are always in walking distance of one another but couldn't tell you the name of their next door neighbour or from childhood to death will have never set foot in a forest or taken a sail to sea. Creates low-trust societies in immensely dense but heterogenous localities with socially isolated individuals whose purpose is primarily economic for the state or company, not for their humanity.
-The environment is fucked. Regular pollution, hormone emulators, disrupters in the air, in the water, turning the freaking frogs gay lmao, it's not going to be helping anyone if their psychiatry is being messed up or if they're suffering from unnecessary lung disease.
-Total lack of confidence on every level, mental health issues highest than ever historically recorded, in the UK 1/4 of the total population will report mental illness of some sort annually, while it's 1/6 weekly for England.
-Obesity, kids raised into it, shit's buggered all over the place especially since parents often can't teach their kids how to cook because their parents never taught them.
-The communication echo chamber, where people can get unhealthily drawn into communities which are encouraging a self-destructive lifestyle
-The internet hate machine, where today you can be sanctioned for having made an opinion, and even opinions made in childhood can cause life ruining consequence decades later

I can go on, it's a perfect storm of bullshit that's only getting worse. Point that I'm getting at is, is that everything is going wrong, and they're all fucking it up together. Taken in isolation, each one of these could probably exist without causing this much harm, but that they're all fucking everything together with each reaction feeding into the next volatile reaction, you start seeing crazy shit like this. Like this incel man; it took a combination of mental illness, poor physical health, a non-existent social life, a personal development curve that was a plateau turning into a cliff, an echo-chamber so absorbed in its own irony it encouraged his self-destructive behaviour and he enjoyed it, for the perfect storm of stupidity and idiocy to make another meme killer!

How much easier it would be if it were all the fault of one man!

Dorsidwarf

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #2383 on: May 03, 2018, 07:53:24 pm »

Maybe we should repeal the limited test treaty so that regular  nuclear EMPs can remind us to turn off our pocket universes.




-posted from iPhone at 1:53AM
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redwallzyl

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Re: The Abusive Policing Thread: Beyond Brown, No Justice
« Reply #2384 on: May 03, 2018, 07:59:20 pm »

-
Fixing it all is very much seeming to me like an uphill battle. So many vested interests and so much apathy. Just looking at it together makes you want to just give up. I think we can fix it eventually though. Assuming we don't blow ourselves up first.
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