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[NullForceOmega]

I'm not calling them psychopaths.  That would indicate mental illness.  I'm calling them poorly trained cowards, because that is what they are.  Cops who kill are failures as police officers, and should be punished, but that punishment should fit the crime, not in the eye-for-an-eye sense, but in the sense of removing problem officers (it is incredibly difficult to overcome an ingrained mentality) and replacing them with properly trained officers.

[Playergamer]

I'm out. Not sure why I posted in this thread, I really, honestly respect everyone on Bay12 too much to talk any kind of politics. Gonna exile myself from GD for a bit.

[Frumple]

Listen. I don't believe cop training is perfect. I think reform is needed. The problem is, BLM is not pushing for reform. They want to punish cops who follow their bad training and kill someone. The fact is, calling cops psychopaths isn't the most helpful thing to do.

I mean... to a fair extent, yes? Accountability is one of the major things the general BLM movement is pushing for, which is pretty much exactly what punishing people who follow shit training and kill someone is. Ignorance is no excuse before the law, et al; civilian world you have things like criminal negligence in the workplace and whatnot, or just worker's comp in general. It's not like the opinion that some degree of consequence existing for certain actions could incentivize the behavior to cut back a bit is particularly radical... it's questionable in extremis and for certain problems, but we're pretty well aware doing stuff like bringing in third party checks and whatnot seem to do pretty good things for police behavior in a locality.

Still, yeah, calling cops in general psychopaths isn't particularly helpful. Acknowledging that there appears to be an abnormally high occurrence (or at least retention when it's noticed) of similar behaviors in the force is probably a thing (kinda' like being aware of the incidence of sociopathy among upper tier management, in business in particular), but the blanket condemnation is... not something too many people are actually doing, really. Not regarding insanity, at least. There's a couple around here that have more or less gone poe, but...

[SalmonGod]

There have been many cops who have been found out on private communications on social media, texting, etc espousing bigoted views, and basically admitting that they plan to hurt people from demographics they don't like.  I don't believe in eye-for-an-eye, but removal only as official policy is basically advertising "get your one free murder right here" to those types of people.  I don't think police should always be judged by law the same way a normal civilian would be, but it shouldn't always be so different, either.  For example, when an officer says they "wish someone would pull a Ferguson on them", that should be grounds for considering any incidents (like any use of force complaints) which may take place afterwards as pre-meditated, and any special protections normally afforded an officer (like "internal investigations") likely stripped.  It's not like police are the only profession that has to be concerned for the safety of both themselves and others as part of their work, but they are abso-fucking-lutely held to the lowest standards for doing so.  Which doesn't make sense to me.  It's a position of power that just begs to be abused, because of those low standards.

[Descan]

yeah i mean one of the major planks of BLM has been reform, has always been reform (that and the please-stop-killing-black-people plank) and pretty much most BLM activists will be satisfied once meaningful reform actually happens

soooo

yeah don't know why you're posting in here if you're not going to do a modicum of research

[NullForceOmega]

When I said remove, it meant it more in the sense of 'if you do this you are off the force, and then you face charges.'  Not as 'here, we're kicking you out, don't do it again.'

But then I also feel that if the Police want to act like soldiers, they should be held to the same level of accountability, i.e. total.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Police don't act like soldiers, they act like bullies. Back during Ferguson, there was a period of about two days where the police where relieved of duty and replaced with the National Guard. Those two days were by far the most peaceful of the whole incident, and it wasn't because the guard had machine guns. After all, the police have those too now.

Shockingly, a sense of discipline and a lack of inflamed egotism goes a long way towards effective law enforcement, even by people who's normal job is not enforcing law.

[NullForceOmega]

1 )  I said 'want to act like soldiers', I've met a lot of cops, and every single one of those who 'acts like a bully' seems to be under the impression that they are fighting a war.  Especially SWAT officers.

2 )  I agree, completely, that professionalism and discipline are absolutely needful for police officers, and I feel that forcing them to be held fully accountable for their actions would be a good place to start, preferably with full tribunals for fact finding and civilian review based on those findings.

[Sheb]

Listen. I don't believe cop training is perfect. I think reform is needed. The problem is, BLM is not pushing for reform. They want to punish cops who follow their bad training and kill someone. The fact is, calling cops psychopaths isn't the most helpful thing to do.

I really don't get why you seem to think wanting to punish cops that kill people without good reasons is a bad thing.

Although after spending time on BLM.com, I do have a few reservation. Black Genocide, really?

[Orange Wizard]

Black Lives Matter is basically cancer at this point. I'm sad that petition to have them recognised as a terror group got shot down because lolracism

Although after spending time on BLM.com, I do have a few reservation. Black Genocide, really?

Can't trust the truckers m8, they're all literal nazis

[Max™]

I played final fantasy xi too long, every time I see BLM I think "Black Mage" and agree that as a WAR, those guys are the worst.

[Frumple]

There... was more to the canada thing than you're saying, go. You kinda' have to remember that minority LGBT populations get shat on even harder than the non-minority ones, often notably by the latter. So them specifically pushing for something related to substantially racial issues that are definitely disproportionately hitting certain groups is... something that often needs doing. Far as general treatment goes, LGBT folks of color are often notably worse off, and police treatment of 'em is definitely part of that.

Problem with the pride parade up north was more not hashing things out beforehand with the organisers than anything. Far as I'm aware the folks arranging for the parade agreed with what BLM was doing there, just wanted more warning.

[Descan]

you may not agree with the idea, but saying that the idea of wanting to get rid of the fuckhuge numbers of police floats (i think it's one per division?) when it's the police who make numbers of LGBT people feel unsafe is "pants on head retarded" is, itself, pants-on-head retarded.

it's not a police pride parade, it's a queer pride parade. if the police want to make a "queer cops of toronto" float, I'm sure that would be welcome, but just "HEY we're cops, let us into your non-cop parade filled with people we were shooting at and beating up 20 years ago!" is, in my opinion, stupid as fuck

[redwallzyl]

Here we go again.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/21/486869035/north-miami-police-shoot-black-man-who-was-reportedly-lying-on-the-ground

[smjjames]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/21/florida-police-shoot-black-man-lying-down-with-arms-in-air

At least the guy wasn't killed, but yeah, seriously, what the heck is going on there? Also, Florida.