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[Rolan7]

Have to point out the opposite side of the argument, though... the fact that these programs provide an incentive for privately run prisons to lobby for a regressive justice system that provides them with as many profit-generating inmates as possible.  And that this fire-fighting bit may not be representative of most prison labor programs. 

Not an argument against giving inmates an opportunity to get out of their cells and do something constructive so much as an argument against private prisons in general.

I totally agree about this.  Too many good people are getting stuffed in prisons and "institutionalized", basically ruining their lives and forcing them into a cycle of crime.  I mean, a lot of people do manage to recover, but it's very much *despite* the penal system.  I blame the war on drugs (and other "tough on crime" initiatives with mandatory minimums) for starting the problem, and the private prison lobby profits from it.  So of course they support these unjust punishments.

I do kinda like work release programs like this.  They're doing something constructive, and being trusted to be out "in the world".  It seems humanizing, particularly when prison is mostly the exact opposite.  Cutting people off from society, *even after they're released*.  Teaching them to form cliques and learn from other criminals, just to survive.

It does suck that the prison corps benefit from it though.  Might count as a "perverse incentive", though I don't think they *need* more incentive to lobby for insane punishments.

[penguinofhonor]

This is older than the war on drugs. Even slavery in prisons is explicitly allowed in the US constitution.

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

[Calidovi]

This is older than the war on drugs. Even slavery in prisons is explicitly allowed in the US constitution.

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Kind of branching off of that part, how far can interpretations by the Supreme Court go? Is the constitution extremely malleable in the sense that XIII could be somewhat dismissed? Or will that have to be outrightly amended?

[Bauglir]

Strictly speaking, the Supreme Court can interpret the Constitution however it wants, but Congress can theoretically amend the Constitution to explicitly deny the Court's conclusion, and the Court can't just dismiss parts of the Constitution. Their legal work starts from the assumption that the document is coherent and the absolute highest rule of law. In this case, it's as explicit as it gets - as punishment for a crime for which a person has been legally convicted, slavery or involuntary servitude are acceptable to the Constitution.

The way around that is that it certainly doesn't mandate it - you'll never see the Court overturn that sort of policy, but you might see laws that do so pass and be upheld.

[Frumple]

Think the other workaround to SC decisions is they have to have a case come before them before they (can, so far as I'm aware) do anything about it. They pick among cases that come to them, but m'not aware of a mechanism by which they go out and find cases that aren't explicitly appealed before their court.

So conceptually you could ignore or violate any part of the constitution on a whim, indefinitely, so long as appeals against the violation never made it in front of the supreme court.

[penguinofhonor]

Bernard Scott was in St. Louis police custody, being held for $360 bail over traffic violations. He showed signs of medical problems and an ambulance was called, but police turned it away twice. The second time the EMTs report he was "unconscious, his muscles stiff. He was aggressive, difficult to pin down and his posture indicated possible brain damage." He was found shortly afterward hanging from a noose made from a shoestring. He nearly died and went into an 11-day coma. After waking up, Scott has claimed he had no reason to kill himself and the police were attempting to fake his suicide. Unfortunately he doesn't remember much after being denied the ambulance the first time.

The police claim the paramedics found nothing wrong with him and left on their own. The paramedics disagree - they reported that they told the police Scott needed to go to the emergency room. The EMTs identified the police officer who told them to leave, but he claims he was out of the police station for 10 minutes during this incident, and came back to find the ambulance had already gone. Despite the contradictions between different statements, the police have done no further investigation.

[Frumple]

Yeah, from what I understand part of that lack of further investigation is because the district in question has absolutely zero procedure laid down for disentangling contradicting reports between organizations. Not just no procedure for screw ups of this magnitude, but zero, none, for anything of any degree.

S'one of the those examples of incompetence that can't be distinguished from malice.

[Zangi]

He said, she said.  Police tends to get right of way in the courts, so yea.  Ain't much recourse on that front without concrete facts.

[RedKing]

Update: Illinois officer supposedly shot by black suspects he was chasing actually determined to have committed a "carefully staged suicide", according to the police department and state coroner's office.
Officer also determined to have been stealing and laundering police assets.

Cue "This is a smear campaign against a dead hero! Liberals are despicable!"...

[scriver]

It does sound incredibly suspicious at first glance, though.

[nenjin]

I wonder if he did it to preserve his benefits and receive honors. Cops killed by suspects keep their pensions and are remembered as heroes. Cops who are defrauding the state tend to go to jail and are disgraced.

[IronyOwl]

Update: Illinois officer supposedly shot by black suspects he was chasing actually determined to have committed a "carefully staged suicide", according to the police department and state coroner's office.
Officer also determined to have been stealing and laundering police assets.

Cue "This is a smear campaign against a dead hero! Liberals are despicable!"...

I was gonna call this bizarre, but then I started reading the comments section. That was not a smart move.

[SalmonGod]

Moar riots pls

[Morrigi]

That one would be worthy of rioting over, too. Someone was ACTUALLY shot in the back this time.

[Rolan7]

The encounter began when Mearkle attempted to pull over Kassick after noticing an expired inspection sticker on his sedan. She pursued him to Kassick’s sister’s home, where he had been living, and he ran to the backyard.

Mearkle caught up to him in the yard. She said she was convinced he had a gun in his jacket and was reaching for it.

And in the video, after being tased (for what seems like a long time, granted, but this guy *will not stop*) she tells him to show his hands and he moves them under himself instead.  The guy had plenty of opportunities to surrender, even if things got questionable at the end there.

And hey, if it matters that he didn't turn out to have a weapon, does it also matter that he was driving drunk and on drugs?

This wouldn't have happened if she'd had a partner to assist, but budget cuts...
Also wow, gotta love those comments (on surenews.com).  Stay classy, internet shitheads.