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[SalmonGod]

That said, these otherwise-ignorant-of-whatever-situation officers would rather show solidarity in the face of all police officers being generally attacked, which they are and have been, than condemning every officer of a suspected hate crime willy nilly lest it spiral out of control in to something like McCarthyism 2.0

Lots of guns, which makes cops nervous (The US also got one of the highest number of cops killed in the line of duty in the western world). Nothing some real reform can't fix.

Law enforcement doesn't even rank on the official list of top 10 most dangerous job categories, according the Bureau of Labor Statistics.  I can't find a year when it ever has.  There is an inherent danger to their work, sure, but they also push that point to an incredible degree of overstatement.  Trash collection ranks #5 in 2014, and I'd argue that they're an even more essential public service.  But I don't think I've ever heard of a parade in any garbage man's honor.  Or much public concern for how well protected they are on the job.

[sneakey pete]

I actually can't fathom how trash collection could be the 5th most dangerous job in the USA. Particularly considering you have heaps of construction work of various types going on there, by taking per capita figures from what we have in our industry here that should be 4500 people a year. For garbage collection to be 5th you'd need 4 figures and... I just don't understand how.


Anyway, what I find interesting in this case is that from what appears in the video, by my interpretation, there was a scuffle of some kind and i'd say that a taser was grabbed for. Then it was followed up with the officer cold bloodily shooting the guy in the back 8 times.

I wonder what the hell was going on that made the guy grab for the taser though. Now, note, i'm not saying that that justified the shooting, i'm saying it was a cause for the shooting. It does seem like in a lot of these cases there is a cause of some sort, the police really, really need to be trained to deal better with this or something.

[Frumple]

For garbage collection to be 5th you'd need 4 figures and... I just don't understand how.

Low training, heavy machinery, heavy weights, toxic waste, even more crazy people than cops deal with (with even less training and equipment), smaller operating teams than most construction workplaces, pretty much constantly on the road (without the stupid-driving suppressant that is a police cruiser). There's just kind of a sundry list. It's not safe work.

[scriver]

The mob and other organised crime

[Zangi]

Damn lucrative business when a full on doctor decided to get into it(management), rather then pursue a job in health care. 
Anecdote of a person I very briefly met in NYC.

[SalmonGod]

http://www.killedbypolice.net/

4 yesterday
316 so far this year

Another fun case...

[Zangi]

4 criminals were killed by police in self defense yesterday
316 dangerous criminals were killed in self defense so far this year
/tough on crime
/keeping our streets safe
 #properwaytoframestatistic

[Rolan7]

Justified or not, whether the officer could have avoided it or not, it's still a sign that's something's really wrong.

And some departments are definitely covering up incidents.  I'd say Ferguson qualifies (even though I don't think it needed to be covered up).  And the Scott case discussed yesterday, too, must have been covered up since the department released a statement they couldn't have possibly believed (since the suspect was shot in the back):

So it's reasonable to think that there are other coverups which succeed.

What I'm not convinced of is that cops are intentionally murdering people.  I'm seeing people screw up under pressure, with awful consequences, and departments are trying to hide it (which is unforgivable).  So, I think there need to be more helmet cameras, and transparency in the incident review process.  And in questionable cases, the victims deserve trials.

Maybe measures like that will make officers more careful, but it's more a matter of justice.  To prevent the mistakes in the first place, there needs to be more time and money dedicated to training.  Which sucks, but that's the only solution I see.

[Bauglir]

Police officers have a difficult job. Absolutely. They're put in situations, on a daily basis, in which their lives depend on split-second decisionmaking. Certainly. Police officers put themselves at risk for the good of the citizens. No argument from me. They should care about their fellow police officers and show solidarity in the face of adversity. Damn straight. There are nations that have it worse than the United States, and we should be glad that we don't have to deal with such blatant and state-sanctioned corruption, brutality, and general evil. Unquestionably. Mistakes do inevitably happen. Sure.

But usually, as a civilian worker, when you make a mistake that kills somebody, you have some pretty bad consequences for it. Often, you'll be fired. Usually, attempting to cover up the mistake gets you disciplined pretty severely on top of whatever consequences you have for the actual mistake. In fact, that's usually a lot worse than the actual error, since it's a premeditated, intentional act. You'd certainly be fired for that, at the very least.

I've heard all sorts of good arguments for why we should attempt to understand police perspectives and avoid demonizing them, and I agree. But those arguments always get raised in the context of telling us why we shouldn't even try to hold them accountable for their mistakes. Life shouldn't work that way. Sympathy should not buy you immunity to consequences.

[DJ]

Danger is a terrible justification for overreacting because danger is precisely what they signed up for. How long would a fireman that refuses to go near fire keep his job?

[Rolan7]

My understanding is that most situations don't escalate.  Handle dozens of incidents of writing tickets, or ending domestic disputes just by showing up, and then one day one of the many screaming angry people you've been sent to calm down grabs you, or reaches into his pocket suddenly.

A routine situation suddenly becomes life-threatening, I think it takes proper training to react appropriately.

[Leafsnail]

It's not like training is the major issue here, though.  That there is a police officer who would shoot a fleeing man in the back execution-style and plant evidence is one thing, but the fact that the fact that his fellow officers and superiors helped him cover it up (as they do in so many other cases) is completely fucked up and points to a far wider institutional problem.  It's not like the people hiding the fact that the victim was shot in the back were doing so because they were scared or inexperienced.

[Rolan7]

Definitely agreed.  The corruption is inexcusable and it surely goes beyond the few cases which happened to come to light.

[scriver]

Well, unless you count peer pressure and fear of what do to you (or rather, not do) to you.

[SalmonGod]

You can make a case for the majority of these incidents being the result of extremely bad or emotional decisions made under pressure.

But there are still a significant number of cases where no argument can be made for the abuse being anything but intentional, and those cases still result in department-wide cover-ups.

Plus, I still think there's a fundamental mentality issue when the first response to someone escaping is deadly force.  I can understand it as a knee-jerk reaction to "Oh shit he's going to try and kill me I wasn't prepared for this"... but I think it says something about the person when their knee-jerk reaction to "Oh shit he's getting away" is to shoot at them.

And I still want to know what the justification is supposed to be for police brutality of peaceful protestors.  There is a near-universal behavior pattern there that also points to a widespread and severe cultural issue.  This is actually the first reason I ever began to have a negative opinion of law enforcement, and it continually reinforces my beliefs regarding these individual use of force cases.