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[Scruiser]

If there is to be a sharp transition, they should at least have some sort of  harrowing coming of age ritual.

Dwarven child care
Heheh we already have player implemented coming of age rituals...

I like the idea of both apprenticeships and schools in DF, but I think Toady should focus on schools first.

Schools/classes are probably more straightforward to implement than apprenticeships.  Toady could use it to get an idea for how apprenticeships should be balanced in terms of level caps and learn rates.
Books could directly build off the current secret framework.  In addition to writing books when they learn secrets, dwarfs could write books when the reach key levels of skill.  It could also utilize the knowledge framework that is currently only used for training animals.  Your civ could gradually copy and store the highest quality/skill level of books and then trade them between sites to cultivate skills in the dwarfs.  If you need weapon-smiths, you could request copies of the best books on weapon-smithing from your trade liaison.

Apprenticeships, on the other hand, would be just as difficult balance- and skill gain-wise but would also be more difficult mechanically, because there is no existing game mechanic that could be easily adapted for it. So while I'd like to see both things implemented, I think Toady should spend his time working on schools first.

   I think apprenticeships would tie in well with multi-dwarf labor also.  For example, smithing something could require both a smith and a furnace operator to work at full speed.  The furnace operator provides a speed bonus based on skill, with a major speed penalty if you only have a smith.  IRL, you might have someone work the bellows or maintains the forge temperature.  This would also allow player mods to implement industrial systems by having workshops that require dozens of dwarfs to get up to full speed but then operate very fast once they have a critical number of dwarfs.
   Apprentices would tie in with this by having side jobs related to the overall labor for the apprentice.

[GoblinCookie]

Does not our dwarves 'growing up' at twelve sort of represent this already. 

[Scruiser]

Does not our dwarves 'growing up' at twelve sort of represent this already. 

  I'm not sure if that is supposed to be because dwarf's age differently than humans, or because a teenage who has just entered puberty is treated like an adult in dwarf culture, or some combination of both.
   There are at least some types of jobs you can start training someone at 6 years old for.  Also, apprenticeships would be helpful for getting skill levels on recently turned adult dwarfs without wasting the material on having them produce crappy goods.  Apprenticeships existed in the middle ages IRL, so it fits from a realism perspective.

[GoblinCookie]

  I'm not sure if that is supposed to be because dwarf's age differently than humans, or because a teenage who has just entered puberty is treated like an adult in dwarf culture, or some combination of both.
   There are at least some types of jobs you can start training someone at 6 years old for.  Also, apprenticeships would be helpful for getting skill levels on recently turned adult dwarfs without wasting the material on having them produce crappy goods.  Apprenticeships existed in the middle ages IRL, so it fits from a realism perspective.

The thread should be then be about education in general.  The apprentice system is redundant if we have a school/education system for our young dwarves and adult dwarves as well.  That is far broader, more flexible and has a wider scope.

[Scruiser]

   You could handle apprenticeships as one teacher-one student classes... but that still wouldn't cover the on-the-job training part of the apprenticeship.  You would also probably want different learning rates and level caps on classes versus on-the-job training
    To expand on an earlier example, the master sword smith makes choices about the forge temperature, quality of iron used, how many times the steel if folded (for Japanese sword smithing), how long to quench the steel, etc.  Apprentice(s) might work the bellows, fetch raw materials, do some of the physical hammering under the master's guidance.
   Hmm... I think most of the framework for apprentices would be covered by implementing multi-dwarf jobs and then adding variable skill gains for the different parts of a job, and variable speed/quality that depends on the different jobs in different ways.  Workshop profiles could be used to enforce the roles of master and apprentice, or there could be a setup for allowing or assigning dwarfs to take apprentices directly.
   The school framework would cover all the cases of education that don't involve on-the-job training.

[GavJ]

scruiser, schools provide practical training all the time. Didn't you ever take woodshop or home ec? A single instructor can oversee many practical experience pupils. I agree that education in general would be a more productive conversation, probably, now that it is mentioned.

random tangential metalworking comment:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Folding steel was mainly just to compensate for variable quality inconsistent Japanese steel by mixing to a more uniform distribution. Volcanic arc islands like Japan are missing most of the best iron ores, which largely form from much older/longer term water/weathering action than is possible in useful quantities yet on very short-lived islands, OR from banded iron ore that all formed mostly 2 billion years ago when the atmosphere became oxygenated

[Scruiser]

scruiser, schools provide practical training all the time. Didn't you ever take woodshop or home ec? A single instructor can oversee many practical experience pupils. I agree that education in general would be a more productive conversation, probably, now that it is mentioned.

  Ha, maybe it is just may own experiences biasing me.  Even my college classes have been mostly theoretical except for the labs.  Hmm... I suppose the school framework could include a mechanic for the classes to use materials to provide higher skill caps.  The carpenter class has every student grab a log for example if it is allowed to in its setting of the classroom.

[Linkxsc]

Would be kinda nice if dwarves that spend any amount of time chitchatting with eachother, give eachother a bit of experience about their respective jobs. This could work for children (kinds hanging around talking with all the more experienced people) or just simply 2 miners bantering and possibly raising both their skills (1 has 1 way of doing it, the other has another way. With some chatting they might come up with slightly better ways of doing it). Hell thats how I learned about 80% of the stuff that I know.