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[Megaman_zx]

well if there is a fish nation for each trade caravan sent then there will be (especially for me) a bunch of fishnations with no way to distinguish amongst them... it probably won't affect the actuall forum game that much tho.... i should really check out the new worldviewer and see if that can help us keep track of our guilds



GODDAMMIT!!!!! how come i just realized the worldmap is northamerica (apparently i'm on the east coast, if i got my geography right the avalanche of pearls is in part of newyork/jersy/hampshire and vermont)
also not to be racist or start some kinda fight on immigration, but cuba is full of elves!!!! (so is michigan [my 2nd most hated state]) It will be CLEANSED!!!!

also there's been alot of fighting between the humans in texas and the elves in mexico (it's not me that's racist it's the game)

and then i realize there's a nice territory amp on the first page....

[Megaman_zx]

sorry for the double post but i had some rule alteration suggestions (in regard to turns) in mind and forgot to post them earlier.

first off, i'm thinking that turns are seasons, not years

When a new player joins the game. They are given 1 year (next spring in turn order, to spring). They still need to embark with an appraiser and subtract that wealth from their guild db. but they get 1 year to set up basic industries so that they can actually have, either on hand or with a few alterations, the means to produce trade materials.

We have the same (or similar) turn order as we do now, but issuing and accepting trade caravan requests don't require a turn, and can be posted at any time.

For the turn actions the player would get 1 season to play either fort mode or adv mode (with my adventure mode ideas pending [4 advs 1 week each]) They could continue a fort for a season or found a new fort and dig out your beta-fort within 1 season.

pros and cons...

pros: quicker turn order because you only have to play for 1 season.
more strategic gameplay because you have to choose which mode you will play during your seasonal turn.
even though it adds more strategic gameplay, it makes the turn by turn process simpler because you really only have 3 choices (caravan/adventure, build up rescources/defenses/etc. with your established fort, or found a new fort)
Also with the year and month long incubation periods on guildhalls (first forts) and expansions (Later forts) it allows for more strategic expansion with prospecting and the ability to set up small military or supply outposts.

cons: (for one i'm biased so please give me feedback) the only thing i can think of is that if we get a fourth person each person will be stuck in a single season (using a lottery or random roll system to determine seasons at the beginning of the year may make that less of an issue)
Also the more people we get the longer you'll have to wait before retaliating, so if multiple guilds decide to start harassing you, you won't be able to properly respond (actually this sin't really a con and more of a good game mechanic)

If you decide to implement this, then we could take our first years in their turn orders and then commence with the mercantilism, smoothing over any other glitches as they arise... also it appears to be my turn. I know we have been discussing the rules a bit, but you are waiting on my decision just let me know and we can get that ball rolling again

[Timeless Bob]

sorry for the double post but i had some rule alteration suggestions (in regard to turns) in mind and forgot to post them earlier.

first off, i'm thinking that turns are seasons, not years

Now that IS an interesting idea.

When a new player joins the game. They are given 1 year (next spring in turn order, to spring). They still need to embark with an appraiser and subtract that wealth from their guild db. but they get 1 year to set up basic industries so that they can actually have, either on hand or with a few alterations, the means to produce trade materials.

We have the same (or similar) turn order as we do now, but issuing and accepting trade caravan requests don't require a turn, and can be posted at any time.

Yes. Communications between Player's civs need to have some sort of "crystal ball" item for posting caravan bids, various alliance messages, ect...  Maybe I'll add a job to the gem-cutter to make a "crystal ball" or something.  (I'm not sure how to do that - more research I guess.)

For the turn actions the player would get 1 season to play either fort mode or adv mode (with my adventure mode ideas pending [4 advs 1 week each]) They could continue a fort for a season or found a new fort and dig out your beta-fort within 1 season.

pros and cons...

pros: quicker turn order because you only have to play for 1 season.
more strategic gameplay because you have to choose which mode you will play during your seasonal turn.
even though it adds more strategic gameplay, it makes the turn by turn process simpler because you really only have 3 choices (caravan/adventure, build up rescources/defenses/etc. with your established fort, or found a new fort)
Also with the year and month long incubation periods on guildhalls (first forts) and expansions (Later forts) it allows for more strategic expansion with prospecting and the ability to set up small military or supply outposts.

cons: (for one i'm biased so please give me feedback) the only thing i can think of is that if we get a fourth person each person will be stuck in a single season (using a lottery or random roll system to determine seasons at the beginning of the year may make that less of an issue)
Also the more people we get the longer you'll have to wait before retaliating, so if multiple guilds decide to start harassing you, you won't be able to properly respond (actually this isn't really a con and more of a good game mechanic)

Maybe this is what mutual aid alliances and trade agreements are for - when somebody starts messing with you and your turn isn't up for awhile, that's when you can promise action, funds or not to trade with somebody else in return for them to act on your behalf.  Ah, politics...

If you decide to implement this, then we could take our first years in their turn orders and then commence with the mercantilism, smoothing over any other glitches as they arise... also it appears to be my turn. I know we have been discussing the rules a bit, but you are waiting on my decision just let me know and we can get that ball rolling again

I like this idea - I've also been thinking of just generating the same world with dwarves as the only race.  If I could get it so that we have evil dwarves, skulking dwarves, forestry dwarves, city dwarves, cavern dwelling feral dwarves and the traditional mountain-home dwelling ones. With everyone being dwarves, all civs might have the potential to be claimed by Players.  More Science to be done, I suppose.

[Timeless Bob]

OK, so I've updated the game to have actual trading currency in the form of crafted gem rings.  This solves a big issue with maintaining "reserve" accounts or figuring out how wealthy a guild is by making the wealth able to be stolen, secured, transported, guarded and all the other crap we do with RL currency.  I'm going to include coins minted at embarks as well when counting how wealthy a given guild is.  Coins are going to be used for "spare change" currency because each bar of gold, silver or copper mints 500 coins. 

               (bar worth/500)
Gold: 1 bar = 300db, 1 coin = 0.6db
Silver: 1 bar = 100db, 1 coin = 0.2db
Copper: 1 bar = 20db, 1 coin = 0.04db
   (Other metals such as tin, bronze, steel, adamantium, ect... can all be appraised by the bar's worth then divided by 500 to get the coin's worth)

However, each coin will be specifically from your guild mint, so you can see who somebody's been trading with if they use it to pay you and that might be a really good way of transforming excess crap from siegers into a bump for your guild's wealth ranking.

Other changes:
An "unretired embark" turn lasts one season (except for the initial "Guild HQ" which gets 4 seasons to set up)

An "adventurer caravan" turn lasts for fifteen days (fourteen nights) - the same length of time it takes a new embark to arrive at its destination. 

New embarks and reclaiming abandoned embarks are still made then immediately retired because they are only a place-holder for intended new land holdings until a caravan from that civ is able to retire there.  Due to this, new and reclaimed embarks start out with empty wagons.  Everything for that site must be brought in on the backs of adventurers.

The initial Guild Headquarters site is exempt from the "empty wagon" requirement - each Player gets 10,000 embark points to use as they wish for this embark, but this will be the only time "gem rings" (found in "crafts") can be embarked with as guild currency, so the more you buy in those, the greater your starting trading wealth will be.  However, that will decrease the amount of other stuff you can bring to get your HQ started.  It should be interesting to see how Players will choose to divide the points up.

A broker with the "appraisal" skill is required at any site that a guild wants to count toward it's "wealth" score.

The world has been re-generated to block any non-player caravans.  While all the dwarven civs are still in the same places, their names have changed.

[zlob]

Since you claimed "Tongs" civilization, you might want to remove it from "unclaimed civs" list.
I'll take the Violent Anvil civ.

[Timeless Bob]

I need to get the proper save file up - that one was the "test" to see if having a bunch of rings and coins and such would weight the adventurer down.  The answer: not much.  I'll get the "clean" save file link out immediately.

[zlob]

Do we create and retire HQs just as other embark sites or we play one year and then retire?
EDIT: Nevermind, I noticed that you updated the main post and found the answer there.

[Timeless Bob]

OK, so the proper save file link has been posted.

[zlob]

Doesn't entering retired forts crash a game for you?
I once tried to bring an adventurer to a retired fortress but I got "Nemesis Load fail" (or something like that) error message , and the game crashed.
On the other save though, everything worked fine.

[Timeless Bob]

A "Nemesis Unit Load Fail" message usually only happens when an NPC's save file has become corrupted.  That began happening pretty often in the 34.11 "Museum" game.  Did that happen to you with THIS latest game file?  If so, definitely send it to the bug reports page because that's something that has repeatedly crashed the game in its previous incarnation as well.

However, so long as you don't try to interrupt the "dwarf fortress" program while it's still running, that shouldn't be a problem.  I'm pretty sure a "nemesis unit" is an adventurer or other historical person/creature like a Roc or a member of the royalty.

[zlob]

1. Well, it happened in 40.10 and I already saw it reported so I haven't reported it. There has to be something with corrupt site or NPC, as you said, because it only happened for me in one fortress. It was persistent and happened EVERY time I tried it. Other fortresses were unaffected and I was able to enter them and slay entire populations.

2. Should I grab the save file before Megaman shows up? I'll probably be able to upload the save in 24 hours.

[Timeless Bob]

1. Well, it happened in 40.10 and I already saw it reported so I haven't reported it. . There has to be something with corrupt site or NPC, as you said, because it only happened for me in one fortress. It was persistent and happened EVERY time I tried it. Other fortresses were unaffected and I was able to enter them and slay all entire populations.

2. Should I grab the save file before Megaman shows up? I'll probably be able to upload the save in 24 hours.

1. If you have that save file, definitely link to it in the bug report - Toady needs to know about what makes that game crash, and a file that does so persistently is a wonderful debugging tool.

2. Yes, grab the file - I'm currently away from home until the 10th, so I won't be online every day until then - If you finish your turn before then, please post the save file and PM Megaman about it.

[zlob]

No blood-thirsty goblins? Isn't it too safe? 
EDIT:

The world has been re-generated to block any non-player caravans.

A caravan from my civ arrived to my fort. Is that intended? In case it wasn't, I ignored them completely and let them leave with what they brought.
EDIT2: I've completed my turn. The embark's name is Steelwalled. Which wealth should I post?
Save is here.

[Megaman_zx]

woah missed a lot!!! these updates look great!!!

i'll take Past Guilds (wootexas) still fishnation

[Timeless Bob]

No blood-thirsty goblins? Isn't it too safe? 
EDIT:

The world has been re-generated to block any non-player caravans.

A caravan from my civ arrived to my fort. Is that intended? In case it wasn't, I ignored them completely and let them leave with what they brought.
EDIT2: I've completed my turn. The embark's name is Steelwalled. Which wealth should I post?
Save is here.

OK, so let's just ignore the NPC caravans - I thought I'd edited them to just not arrive but I guess that was a fail.  Your wealth is counted in gem rings (bought at first embark - did you buy any?) and in minted coins.  I suppose a third option is if you have a gem cutter that cuts enough gems that he/she starts producing gem crafts - if they produce any gem rings, those are also counted as guild trading wealth.  If, however, you didn't buy any gem rings, you may have to do straight barter to be paid in rings instead.  Now we'll get to see what the value of a gem ring becomes with a limited amount being exchanged in the trade system.  This may make minted money have more buying power as well if one guild or another chooses to hoard gem rings in order to be the wealthiest guild.  Exciting times!

(Also: I edited the dwarves, the humans and the elves to not have any "active seasons", but goblins, kobolds and beast-men are still active every season.  I'm sort of glad that the caravans still come through - the trade leader can talk about changes in the world caused by Player civs, which is nice.)