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Author Topic: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!  (Read 810897 times)

Puzzlemaker

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1200 on: February 25, 2015, 06:33:16 pm »

That's exciting!  Are you going to reveal what any of your plans are?
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nenjin

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1201 on: February 25, 2015, 06:49:34 pm »

At least in the last version, I was still unable to transfer Psykers (only) between companies without first selecting two. Transferring a single psyker to the HQ works. I'll check and email a bug if it's still happening.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
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c.c

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1202 on: February 25, 2015, 07:18:13 pm »

Thank you very much duke. you're my hero. Forever and ever.

Also can you explain the mechanics behind the imperial guard? They seem to not actually do anything, nor can I team up with them to fight to save the planet. You think they would be greatfull or something.

Oh also restart doesn't work for me. Nor does saving for that matter.

Also now that I'm at questions, what determines if I can assasinate a governor and get away with it??
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 08:16:25 pm by c.c »
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1203 on: February 25, 2015, 08:30:39 pm »

Ah, that's amazing!  Been wishing for that for a while!
The other changes are great too.
I have some fun* stuff planned.  Assuming that there aren't 100 new bugs, as of this patch, I'll be focusing on some larger gameplay changes and additions.

Are those nifty-looking vehicle mounted weapons that can be unlocked with STC fragments, like the Flamestorm Cannon, actually implemented as equipable? I don't want to waste requisition.
You can purchase them but cannot change vehicle equipment quite yet.  I've been putting that off, since the Chapter Management screen is kind of delicate.

Well played Duke, well played. The new versions are very professional looking. Personally I think it's turning out great. I would never be so rash as leave a list of patches I want, but I would like to suggest two major things: A less incompetent imperium and a different system for transporting troops.

Personally, I think the imperium acts mostly how it should, being relatively placid until the shit hits the fan sector-wide, but there should be at the very least some proactive commanders dispatched to quell rebellions and ork infestations. Also, as soon as a 'WAAAGH' starts a strong navy presence should definitely be assembled to attempt to counteract it. It seems like something the Imperial Navy would do, at least on a sector fleet level.

As for the astartes, I think we need a whole new system, this one is considerably clunky. I think it would be more appropriate for the chapter master to respond to aid requests by getting a pop-up screen allowing you to select the number and type of marines going on the mission as well as their transports. The option should be there to send a full company as well. As for taking initiative, you should have the same kind of options for sending marines to planets, though you could perhaps specify the mission scope in addition to selecting marines or companies. I.E. root out heresy on this planet OR defeat the orks in the system OR conduct general operations in the sub-sector. I think a better way for me to describe my thoughts would be to points out how 'Hearts of Iron III' handles aircraft deployment: You basically select a squadron and give them a base and area to attack, you can specify a larger area to attack by taking the radii of a single province to the farthest distance you want them to travel (i'm doing a bad descriptive job, just take a look at it). Also maybe consider a 'Keep companies up to strength' option?
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nenjin

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1204 on: February 25, 2015, 09:02:18 pm »

I don't think I really like that model. Yes, CM does get a bit clunky in how you manage the companies. (I love it when I forget to embark my company after a sustained ground war, and only realize when it their ships are half a sector away.)

But it's part of what makes the game feel like a simulation. Your suggestion would definitely streamline things, but it's less like a simulation and more like a narrow game with narrower choices (assuming you remove the ability to manually say who goes where, how.) Right now I like to have an explorator Company, that just kinda flies around the sectors, finds stuff, claims it for the Chapter and responds to nearby threats that are worth their time.

Your suggestion also can kinda tie up companies and make them unable to respond to new threats. Lots of times I'm planning go to somewhere but the situation changes. (New outbreak of something nearby I should stop before it gets any worse, ork fleeks that swell to redonk proportions by the time I've actually gotten to where I need to go, and require a rethink of where to attack and when.) If your company is just on auto pilot until they get there, you can't do anything with them. That and there's fleet management beyond just getting Astartes where they need to go. Escort ships and destroyers.

I do think there could be better ways to select companies (like if you did want to load a ship you could open the Chapter management screen and click a company header to just say "all of 'em", which takes you to the ship selection screen.) But controlling whole companies is kind of opposed by CM letting you do stuff like send half the company to one side of the sector, the other half to another and leave a scattering of wounded across half the galaxy, if you so choose to mismanage things that way. So it'd require a pretty severe rethink about what CM lets you do and not do...and a lot of that makes it seem less like a sim and more like...well like a modern game to be honest, that puts usability above granularity.

The path to heresy is often paved with good intentions and this sorta feels like it treads down it a little, toward a more expedient but less fluffy way of commanding the Astartes. I'm not saying I'm in love with the spread sheet but at least it keeps you sort of paying attention to individual troops because you have to look at them, rather than just commanding the entire company. On the other hand, when I think about it, loading guys on ships and keeping them moving around the sector is like 1/3rd of gameplay, easily. Make that super simple and suddenly you're doing a lot more, a lot quicker, which is good, but the game seems kinda shallower, which is bad.

One thing I do think would be nice: the ability to plot a course across the sector. Maybe that would be a nice compromise. When you select ships for warp transit, maybe you hold a key or toggle a check box, and then you can click a path across the sector, with the eta of each jump listed. The fleet follows this course, pausing at every planet for one turn and giving you a chance to do something. If you do nothing with them, they continue on your route. If you raid or disembark them, their course is lost and you have to replot it. Maybe the system they're shooting for has an icon or a glow or something to indicate its the destination of one of your fleets.

And since I'm on about warp travel, one fluffy thing we don't have yet is variable warp transit time, which is a BIG part of 40k lore. Right now every jump is predictable, and generally most should be. But perhaps we need an event that either lengths or shortens the duration of warp transit. (There are tales of people even arriving before they left, but I don't think that's a sane goal to try and program.) So like, +1/-1 or more turns getting added when the event fires. Warp transit along regular warp routes should be more reliable. Traveling through the warp off the warp routes should be way more unpredictable. It kind of irritates me that Orks show zero fucks given for most warp routes. And maybe one of those global turbulent warp events should affect travel times. Maybe one of those "lost in the warp" events should make possible a "returns for the warp" event. One of the big conceits in 40k warfare is that you can't really count on people being where you need them to be, when you need them there, because of the warp, and that leads to a lot of heroic last stands and doomed last stands because not enough people have to hold out against superior forces. In order to keep it sane for players travel times should be relatively stable. But for example...

In my last game a WAAGGGH was called and I'd pretty much crushed it except at its origin, which was puking out roks and fleets like crazy. Way more than my single small fleet carrying my marines could hope to deal with. So instead of confronting them, I'd just jump to the next system over and wait until they'd crashed on the planet, then come back. It was easy to time because you know how long it will take them, and you, to move anywhere. Making those travel times a little more unpredictable would keep things more interesting and prevent people like me from gaming it so hard.

Also fleet combat is lethal as shit and almost unwinnable when it counts due to the #s involved, pls fix. :P
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 09:17:25 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1205 on: February 25, 2015, 09:14:58 pm »

I would like a system more like distant worlds where you can control how much is automated and how much isnt. I would like to maintain the ability to roam the sector crusading in the name of my good god emperor, but i'd like to be able to handle some of the small stuff easily and quickly

EDIT: I can see how heretical i'm being. Anyways, what I really want to maintain the spreadsheety-ness of seeing how awesome every marine is, while making it more accessible. I would like to be able to tell a company of marines to take care of a problem and have them do it. That doesn't mean I don't want to be able to micro-manage them at some points, but i'd like them to be mildly competent on their own. Really I guess I'd like to just keep what is here now, but with more tools to dispatch and direct forces.

EDIT EDIT: Ya reading back it seems my suggestions make it less personal and more grand strategy-y, so ya maybe not that specifically, but something more. Also still competent imperials.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 09:25:10 pm by Urist McScoopbeard »
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EuchreJack

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1206 on: February 25, 2015, 10:39:49 pm »

A better way to implement Urist McScoopbeard's idea is just to allow more factions to give missions.  Maybe sector commanders can give mission to exterminate Orks a few systems away.

One major problem is the imperial government.  Stars should be clumped together, and someone should be in charge.  I am unsure how the Imperium hierarchy actually works, but it should be there.

The mission system should probably be overhauled.  Currently, I am unsure what the player actually gets.  I think the faction just likes you better.  While that certainly makes trade easier, there should be more tangible rewards-punishments for mission results.  For example: The player is offered a new recruiting world if they eliminate a Tyranid fleet nearby.  The player succeeds, and gets the recruiting world.  Later, an Ork Warg is called targeting a neighboring system.  If the player fails, they lose the recruiting world, as they are no longer held in such high esteem.

c.c

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1207 on: February 25, 2015, 11:29:59 pm »

One other question now that I'm thinking, what does planetary disposition do?

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nenjin

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1208 on: February 26, 2015, 12:42:36 am »

Quote
One major problem is the imperial government.  Stars should be clumped together, and someone should be in charge.  I am unsure how the Imperium hierarchy actually works, but it should be there.

It goes like this:

There are 4 Sector Commanders for each one of the Segmentum in the Imperium. Map. These each oversee a number of Subsector Commanders.

The guy in the Diplomacy window would be the Subsector Commander for your sector. Their authority extends over each system in their sector. Technically, they should reside at some Imperial stronghold somewhere in the sector, but in CM they float around amorphously like everyone else. A system is considered a set of planets floating around a star (sun.) Their job is to make sure the sector doesn't collapse under the weight of xenos aggression, heresy and rebellion, plan for its defense and deal with problematic systems and planets.

Each system that has a habitable planet where Imperial Citizens live has a Planetary Governor. The guys you deal with for artifacts and return control of the planet to. This person might be from the local stock, a hereditary noble, or an Imperial figure like a noble or a lord or a retired general or rogue trader, implanted there as a reward/punishment. Planetary governors are responsible for a) ensuring the planet fulfills its tithe of soldiers for the Imperial Guard, material, raw materials like promethium or metals, food, finished goods and psykers, and b) maintaining Imperial law on the planet. They're also the head of the Planetary Defense Force (but NOT the Imperial Guard.) Maintaining Imperial law, at a minimum, is politely ignoring a little xenos contact, a peaceful or at least compliant mutant society or two, a little veneration for pre-Imperial ways and beliefs. At a maximum, a zero tolerance policy on all the above, plus complete veneration of the Emperor. Generally speaking though, as long as there's no chaos or xenos lovin' and the tithes get paid, Planetary Governors are autonomous, and often have to fend for themselves when things go bad. The Imperium is technically obligated to render aid when it can, and that's usually not often.

And on the note of planetary disposition, it still seems really borked, even after I recall some patches hitting it a few versions back. Even on a fresh game, or reloading that game, my dispositions are either still ??? or in the single digits for planets I haven't antagonized.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 12:47:18 am by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Majestic7

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1209 on: February 26, 2015, 02:22:49 am »

Planetary disposition seems to do nothing at the moment; governors always give me artifacts without compensation etc despite having disposition under 10 etc.

Re: naval combat, I thought marine ships were supposed to excel in planetary assaults and bombardments, while the navy handles space superiority. This is purposeful design by the Ganja Lords of Terra so should a chapter go renegade, the navy can blast them to pieces in space. The navy in general should be more active, combining fleets and seeking to engage major enemy threats. That is their only job, dammit!

Can you ever get assigned penitent status inside the game? My little munchkins were gnawing on some cookies when they accidentally ate an inquisitor. It was entirely his fault for wearing a robe that made him look like a chocolate chip cookie. Unfortunately the Inquisition didn't understand that and immediately declared us traitors despite previously having a very good relationship.

Maybe some penitence had been better, I mean, it was just a tiny itsy bitsy inquisitor that was almost dead anyway and covered with chocolate.
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Hetairos

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1210 on: February 26, 2015, 08:33:25 am »

Planetary disposition of 100 makes the planet give you requisition tithes. I don't think there are any other effects. The initial disposition depends on how much the sector commander likes you, I think.

nenjin

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1211 on: February 26, 2015, 11:16:57 am »

Quote
Re: naval combat, I thought marine ships were supposed to excel in planetary assaults and bombardments, while the navy handles space superiority. This is purposeful design by the Ganja Lords of Terra so should a chapter go renegade, the navy can blast them to pieces in space. The navy in general should be more active, combining fleets and seeking to engage major enemy threats. That is their only job, dammit!

Agreed. It irritates me when planets have large a large navy presence that does nothing.

Also, maybe instead of straight up navy guarding planets, they need orbital defense platforms. Common among civilized Imperial worlds. That way they can have static defenses (and maybe even rebuild their static defenses) to free more of the navy up to do their Emperor-damned job!
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 12:45:40 am by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Puzzlemaker

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1212 on: February 26, 2015, 11:26:33 am »

It seems to me that the imperial navy should have two parts, garrisons and fleets.  Fleets would be large and wander around, looking for trouble.  Garrison forces are the local fleets currently around planets.

Just an idea.
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nenjin

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1213 on: February 26, 2015, 11:31:17 am »

It seems to me that the imperial navy should have two parts, garrisons and fleets.  Fleets would be large and wander around, looking for trouble.  Garrison forces are the local fleets currently around planets.

Just an idea.

There's the subsector fleets, but their job seriously isn't hanging around planets guarding them. The Imperium is too big and there are too many threats for them to have that luxury. Planets are supposed to provide for their own local space defense. The Imperial Navy is there to deal with threats too large for them to handle. Which is most threats, since planetary space defense can run the gamut from Orbital Platformers and Frigates ect....to basically ships only slightly more advanced than what we have today.

I'm ok with your idea, just make one the PDF in sssppppppaaaacccceeee, and then the Imperial Navy can get on being the Imperial Navy instead of a glorified speed bump for Ork fleets.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1214 on: February 26, 2015, 11:38:34 am »

It seems to me that the imperial navy should have two parts, garrisons and fleets.  Fleets would be large and wander around, looking for trouble.  Garrison forces are the local fleets currently around planets.

Just an idea.

As I understand it every world has a few escorts to patrol their space lanes. Wealthier worlds may indeed field their own small navies if they have the industrial capacity for shipyards, but the larger fleet will most certainly be concentrated around the sector capital and forge worlds. I.E. most planets make do with a few escorts; death, feudal, agri, and other relatively undeveloped planets make due with less if any navy vessels; hive, industrial, shrine, and fortress worlds often field formidable fleets. The largest including a battleship or collection of cruisers if they are lucky, and always a slew of frigates and escorts. Forge worlds have their own sizable mechanicum fleets in ADDITION to imperial navy vessels both guarding the planets and undergoing maintenance or retrofitting. This means battleships, cruisers, frigates, and a wealth of escorts. The sector capital probably has a similar fleet, though I imagine the bulk of the sector's ships-of-the-line are stationed here while not away at the segmentum fortress. So a large battleship core, with a wealth of other vessels. The only exception to these seems to be long-distance patrols. From what i've read, a single battleship, two or three cruisers, a squadron of frigates, or for less dangerous patrols a squadron of escorts may set out to patrol the sector.
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