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[LordBaal]

Imperial Guard command can request SM aid and the administratum gets to send request to any chapter they deem fit or aviable. Sometimes they reach to a chapter only to find then depleted, or completely gone, or engaged on other conflicts...maybe the chapter simply refuses depending on various factors.

Then, if they are able and said yes they migth decide what to do or how to do if they are requested something specific. They could in theory command other imperium assets like a company of IG but I dont see just any marine could, maybe only those in command staff migth do it formaly. In the heat if battle its possible they could.

[EuchreJack]

So it seems that the game should probably simulate IG movements and allow the player to join in those fights.  The real challenge is knowing which fights to join and with how many SMs.

In smaller numbers, and probably not as much simulated in game, the advantage of a small group of Space Marines would be in leadership of combat forces rather than as the sole combatants.  One Space Marine leading an Imperial Guard Regiment is going to do much more than an Imperial Guard Regiment alone, especially since leading in 40K usually means leading from the front.  Three Space Marines could each lead a Regiment in a three-pronged attack, coordinated with hundreds of years of experience.  Space Marines are probably the longest lived soldiers outside of the Mechanicum or the Inquisition.  And they inspire the kind of admiration that neither of those other organizations can.  And that experience, that ability to know what needs to be done in battle...you can't represent that in a tabletop game.

As for the logistics of Space Marine operations...some of them have chainswords, power blades, and they can rip limbs off of several combatants with their bare hands.  They're also able to use more conventional weapons far better than regular soldiers.  They run out ammo for their bolters, they'll just grab a lazgun if one is in reach.  If they've been in more than one battle, they'll probably grab a lazgun before they run out ammo and conserve the bolts for when they need them.

In short, I'm going to assume that a soldier that has fought across planets that I can't even imagine for longer than I am likely to live is probably going to do a better job at fighting a tactical battle than I ever could, which is the real problem.  Even if they're not superhumans.

While just about any guardsman who has a marine look at him and say "come with me" will gulp and then follow, I don't think the Marines are empowered to take over IG forces. The closest canonical example that comes to mind (not that my knowledge of these things is encyclopedic) is good ol' Grimaldus, but even he ultimately worked with the IG command staff, rather than being in control of them. I think the book even had a bit where he had to learn to persuade because he couldn't just order them and expect humans to do what he wanted them to do.

You're certainly right: They're not empowered to take over IG forces.  I was a bit unclear on that.  It's more of an ability to convince IG forces to listen to their advice and follow them in the thick of battle.  I also imagine that most commissars would likely kill a commanding officer that blatantly ignored one of the Emperor's Grandsons.

[DeepWinter]

The main thing is that Astartes should feel like powerful force multipliers and strike force commandos. They tip the scales of large battles via shock assaults or HVT (Both of individuals and capturing objectives) elimination. It's gonna be difficult to represent that.

[LordBaal]

Something in the scale of DoW II, while a massive battle is happening or hinted as happening around or going to happen very soon.

Basically, it would mean that in a game like Dawn of War I or II (3 does not exists) space marines should play very, very different to most other factions, more like a RPG were you control 100 or up to 1000 characters, plus supporting guys, with semi-random missions depending how the war is going. Or side missions where you help out other imperial forces as IG or PDF which in turn migth end up helping you, not in specific missions but on the strategic scenario. Hell you could even be asked, even very rarely, for advice as a Chapter Master or company leader by other imperial commanding officers.

Chapter master having a focus on, well, being the chapter master, means you can fuck around wherever and however you see fit, and this means you can invade a planet if you will, but it also means calls for help, but not only for defense like the old game, but for offensives made by the IG and other imperial NPC.

These missions should be different than a open battle, and be more "commando" stuff like kill specific target and such. In fact while defending a planet you could be do such attacks too depending on the enemy to decapitate enemy armies. But perhaps this is taking this way too far.

[EuchreJack]

Hell you could even be asked, even very rarely, for advice as a Chapter Master or company leader by other imperial commanding officers.

I'm pretty sure that many imperial commanders would constantly pester the Chapter Master for advice if they could.  The rarity comes from the Chapter Serfs actually letting those communications through to the ever busy Chapter Master.

It's sort of like if most people had a doctor's personal cell phone number, they would probably call that doctor up every time they had a cough or sore.  Instead, we all have our Doctor's Office phone number, and the staff screen out all but the most serious calls.

[E. Albright]

I'd be more inclined to assume the Adeptus Astra Telepathica would be the real barrier between the IG contacting SMs directly. It doesn't matter if the patients have the doc's number if all the calls need to go through a nosy, intrusive centrally-controlled switchboard before they even get to the doctor's receptionists.

[DeepWinter]

I also hope the Inquisition are a potential ally and a potential source of boons and war gear rather than the pain in the powered ass they are in the mod. Stop giving me missions while I'm trying to stop a bloody WAAAAAAAGH! from blowing up the sector!

[LordBaal]

It would be interesting that while you are creating the chapter you get some influence or relationship points to mark how you start with each imperial faction (mechanicum, inquisition....) and from there depending on your actions on the game their stances change.

If you have good standing with the inquisition they will not pester you as ask for your help in important matters. A lukewarm relation might have them pestering you for petty stuff like low importance missions or constant "inspections". A low standing will have them not trusting you with any mission but cock blocking you at any way they can and more surprise checks.

Having this with points let you predefine your standing instead of always being normal. Can't remember if any of the iterations of the game had something like that.

[EuchreJack]

I also hope the Inquisition are a potential ally and a potential source of boons and war gear rather than the pain in the powered ass they are in the mod. Stop giving me missions while I'm trying to stop a bloody WAAAAAAAGH! from blowing up the sector!

Like the Minotaurs?

[E. Albright]

My temptation, based on fluff, would be to say that if you can set your chapter's initial relation with factions, it should probably be a mostly fixed point with mostly elastic variations if you're an established chapter - you're riding thousands of years of reputation, and the other parties are thousands-of-year-old bureaucracies. Permanent relation changes - for better and worse - should be small and hard to effect, and temporary ones should have diminishing returns the further you get from your permanent equilibrium point. New chapters, OTOH, should be more flexible and have an easier time changing their reputations and relations due to a lack of inertia.

[LordBaal]

In that case established chapter migth be a trait. Ultrahard gameplay would be selecting that and bad relations with everyone.

[ndkid]

My temptation, based on fluff, would be to say that if you can set your chapter's initial relation with factions, it should probably be a mostly fixed point with mostly elastic variations if you're an established chapter - you're riding thousands of years of reputation, and the other parties are thousands-of-year-old bureaucracies. Permanent relation changes - for better and worse - should be small and hard to effect, and temporary ones should have diminishing returns the further you get from your permanent equilibrium point. New chapters, OTOH, should be more flexible and have an easier time changing their reputations and relations due to a lack of inertia.

For what it's worth, my vision for faction interactions (which I'm nowhere near implementing yet) will have tiers... personal relationships, "local" relationships, and faction relationships. The higher the level, the smaller the movement. So, for example, if an Inquisitor asks the chapter for assistance, and the CM sends a squad of marines, and things go well, a bunch of things happen:
1) The inquisitor's opinion of those particular marines goes up a lot
2) The inquisitor's opinion of the chapter goes up some
3) The inquisitor's opinion of astartes generally goes up a little
4) The Ordo the inquisitor belongs to has their opinion of the chapter go up a little
5) The Inquisition as a whole has their opinion of the chapter go up a very small amount

So, if the same inquisitor comes back again, maybe he requests one of the specific marines he worked with previously, or expresses his sadness at hearing that one of the ones he worked with previously died in battle. If a different Inquisitor needs assistance, maybe he mentions the positive interaction the previous inquisitor had. And so on.

But, that's all down the road. For now, the immediate reputation system will probably only involve planetary governors, and have other forces and factions added in as I add them. I don't have a design in mind yet for how to make this part of the logic more moddable, so it'll take some pondering as I head in that direction.

Also keep in mind that the default gameplay I'm building today is a newly-founded chapter, so not much pre-build reputation with anyone beyond the normal respect shown to the Emperor's Chosen. Also, the hope is for thousands of turns of play (hundreds of years) with a single chapter. Over time, larger reputation movement should be possible.

[Rolan7]

My temptation, based on fluff, would be to say that if you can set your chapter's initial relation with factions, it should probably be a mostly fixed point with mostly elastic variations if you're an established chapter - you're riding thousands of years of reputation, and the other parties are thousands-of-year-old bureaucracies. Permanent relation changes - for better and worse - should be small and hard to effect, and temporary ones should have diminishing returns the further you get from your permanent equilibrium point. New chapters, OTOH, should be more flexible and have an easier time changing their reputations and relations due to a lack of inertia.

Makes sense.  Unironically, what's a little Kronus massacre to a centuries-long working relationship?  Not to mention *whatever* happened in Soulstorm.

[EuchreJack]

So playing around with the latest release from GitHub, trying to figure out how Scout Marines take the black carapace and become Space Marines.  Do I need gene seed?  I don't see an giant "Implant" key anywhere.

Less intriguing...I can't seem to get past the first turn without it breaking.

EDIT: Hm, if I hit next turn immediately after starting, it works fine.  But if I fiddle around with the organization of my chapter, then I triggered a crash where the buttons all disappeared.  Sorry I don't have enough here to report on.

EDIT2: Game doesn't seem to like my reorganizing the chapter.  Which is a shame since its so fun and so necessary.

[ndkid]

So playing around with the latest release from GitHub, trying to figure out how Scout Marines take the black carapace and become Space Marines.  Do I need gene seed?  I don't see an giant "Implant" key anywhere.

Less intriguing...I can't seem to get past the first turn without it breaking.

EDIT: Hm, if I hit next turn immediately after starting, it works fine.  But if I fiddle around with the organization of my chapter, then I triggered a crash where the buttons all disappeared.  Sorry I don't have enough here to report on.

EDIT2: Game doesn't seem to like my reorganizing the chapter.  Which is a shame since its so fun and so necessary.

In the current build, transferring a scout to a devastator squad effectively is them taking the black carapace. It should probably take them out of action and require an available apothecary at their location; I'll add that to a future ticket.

Can you check to see if there's anything in
%USERPROFILE%\AppData\LocalLow\ObstiNate Games\OnlyWar_ The Next Chapter\
That has an error in it, and if so, DM it to me?