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Author Topic: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!  (Read 798491 times)

stabbymcstabstab

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3345 on: August 13, 2016, 02:18:35 pm »

I want a trooper mangament game set in the Starship Trooper universe.


I feel like that would be really easy to mod into this and would probably be easier to do, mainly due to the lesser amount of details.
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3346 on: August 14, 2016, 04:55:51 am »

I'll point out just one more thing of the original vs estabilished ip:

Chapter master gets away with the zero graphic approach because when a line in combat says "the assault squad tears trough 57 shoota boyz with their melta guns" your nrain fill in the blanks with awesome scenes from the lore; you can't get away that much using original content, you have to have to show what you mean by "unit x hits unit y"
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Scoops Novel

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3347 on: August 15, 2016, 06:33:58 am »

Eh. Chapter master is tolerated in that regard. I'd like some tactics.
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Retropunch

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3348 on: August 15, 2016, 09:04:34 am »

I don't know how I can make this clearer - as someone who studied law (and consulted with some of my lawyer friends who work on copyright law) there is absolutely no chance that Interstellar Army Simulator could be shut down by GW.

You can't send a C&D or do anything against something because it MIGHT get used to mod in an IP. Look at Crusader Kings, they're not getting C&D'd to stop all the mods based on IPs (and if you think GW is bad, LOTR is like a billion times worse for licensing!). Just read it and think about it, if you could have legal action against you because something you made MIGHT be used for something illegal, the world would literally fall apart. Knife sellers would be imprisoned in their thousands.

Similarly, you can't go after someone because 'their thing is kinda like my thing' - you have to have something concrete to base it on, otherwise where would it stop!? You can't make an RTS game because blizzard already did? You can't make a game with sprites because Nintendo already did?! If you don't use any of the assets, names or races mentioned in GW then it would be physically impossible to bring you to court. They have to list what you've infringed, and what tangible things would you have infringed? 'space warfare', 'troops of heavily armed men', 'exoskeletons' - cue every single scifi movie/game/book ever.

Yes, GW is super trigger happy when it comes to lawsuits, but they can't just fire them off because someone creates a game about space warfare. I mean think about it, if this hadn't started on a CM thread, no one would have ever imagined it was connected to GW - would people start saying 'oh you infringed on mass effect because it's a game about space warfare and aliens' or would it be star trek? or starship troopers? or dune? or firefly? or star wars? or gears of war? or Halo?!!?




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With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.

veryangryenglishman

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3349 on: August 15, 2016, 09:44:28 am »

I would play and probably even pay for a generic version if it had adapted versions of all the features that CM was supposed to have. As other people have said, it can always be modded afterwards.
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nenjin

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3350 on: August 15, 2016, 10:41:52 am »

Quote
Yes, GW is super trigger happy when it comes to lawsuits, but they can't just fire them off because someone creates a game about space warfare.

As a matter of fact, they can. Doesn't mean they'd win but as we've discussed the last several pages, it's not about winning. It's about putting people through court and sapping their will and resource to resist.
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TempAcc

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3351 on: August 15, 2016, 11:06:15 am »

Ye, GW generally doesn't care about the prospects of actualy winning, its usualy more about arm wrestling people with much less resources than they have and making them give into their demands.
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3352 on: August 15, 2016, 11:29:17 am »

Similarly, you can't go after someone because 'their thing is kinda like my thing'

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/02/trademark-bully-thwarted-spots-space-marine-back-online

the fact that gw can't win doesn't mean gwq can't fight - where not for high caliber free speech advocates weighting in, it would have been a long and drawn out legal battle, with both sides losing gobs of money - except one side does tons more and it's just operating cost, and one side would bankrupt.
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NivlacSupreme

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3353 on: August 16, 2016, 11:30:34 am »

if you do make the generic one can you include the option for non codex organization (obviously not codex but whatever). I also want to be able to play as the generic version of the deathwatch.
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Retropunch

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3354 on: August 16, 2016, 03:01:07 pm »

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/02/trademark-bully-thwarted-spots-space-marine-back-online

the fact that gw can't win doesn't mean gwq can't fight - where not for high caliber free speech advocates weighting in, it would have been a long and drawn out legal battle, with both sides losing gobs of money - except one side does tons more and it's just operating cost, and one side would bankrupt.

I think you seriously misread that article. No one was getting taken to court (they didn't even send out a C&D), they just asked Amazon to take it down. As we can see though, that is due to the specific name 'space marine' and it was quickly quashed.

Many companies will go after the names of their central IP (take the whole SoaSE: Rebellion debacle) mostly just to show that they're serious about keeping that trademark (there's some grey area over not enforcing copyright in law). As Space Marines are pretty much the main thing in W40k, they're obviously going to try to protect that name - even if it's ridiculous. More than that though, there's a chance that the book might have looked like it was produced by GW - this is again something that they'll make claims against.

Now if the book was called 'Spot the space officer' there's not a chance they could even initiate that. Not even slightly.

As this showed NO ONE WAS TAKEN TO COURT. Just don't use any of the GW names. Call men marines, tanks blastboxes and so on. Again, they have to have something CONCRETE to get you on. To make it simple for you, here are a list of all GW trademark names: https://www.hiveworldterra.co.uk/GWtm.html
Don't use that or any GW sourced assets or resources and NO ONE CAN DO ANYTHING. NO COURT. NO NOTHING. EVER.
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With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.

Dirtcopter77

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3355 on: August 16, 2016, 04:07:37 pm »

You don't have to go completely generic to avoid lawsuits, just get a little creative. A completely generic game that only exists as a legally-bulletproofed vessel for an IP mod isn't going to be a smash hit. Make a grimdark sci-fi setting that draws close parallels to the WH40K setting without using any copyrighted phrases or concepts, and you'll be fine.

For example, the space marines and the imperium of man in general-- they could be reskinned as "Imperial Knights", hulking biomodded supersoldiers wearing heavily armoured biosuits to prevent against the ever-prevalent biological hazards, radiation and industrial toxins of the setting. They could serve the God Computer, a sprawling life support machine slash supercomputer containing the digitized thought processes of the empire's founder. You could go the Asimov route with this and make him a great scientist rather than a godly warrior.

True to the grimdark setting, all human areas (even the dark insides of their spaceships) would be polluted to hell and back and swimming in background radiation from the various machines necessary for faster-than-light travel. The ordinary human is sickly and has most of their body cybernetically replaced to survive their harsh environment, but the Imperial Knights are more or less "pure" humans enhanced by genetic modifications and unobtrusive internal cybernetics.

This is where the geneseed mechanic comes in. Imperial Knights, like space marines, live in isolated "monasteries" with powerful radiation shields and atmospheric filtering in stark cotnrast to the rest of the setting because if they lose too much DNA integrity, aka geneseed purity, they become more "disentangled" and sensitive to the influences of Subspace, aka the Warp. When an individual becomes disentangled they gain powerful extradimensional abilities at the cost of monstrous biomechanical mutations as their intelligent cybernetics and biomods turn rampant and meld with their body. To counteract this, the Imperial Knights store their "backup organs" in Legacy Chambers, which are cooled and atmosphere controlled even beyond the normal for their compounds. Backup organs are basically geneseeds-- it's a symbiotic organism that stores a complete human genome made from the combined DNA of all its previous owners, and it releases the required mutagens, steroids and developmental drugs and hormones required to elevate the Knights above normal humanity.

Of course, regular humans can become disentangled too, but their DNA is already so damaged by the conditions of the setting that it's difficult for them unless they really try. They can purposefully disentangle themselves by performing occult rituals or constructing devices to weaken the barriers between regular space and Subspace. People who are already disentangled act as local conduits and may cause corruption in those around them, which is dangerous if they hide their true nature. Subspace denizens could be powerful energy beings overseeing the twisted biomechanical hordes of corrupted humans.

To solve the founding chapter problems, Knights can be split into a certain amount of original Orders, with every subsequent group being a "Sanctioned Splinter", which is an order created from an existing order for the same reasons new chapters are founded. And naturally there are "Renegade Splinters" which act as chaos space marines, split off from their originator Order due to ideological differences, infighting, coups, unorthodox/inhumane practices or Subspace corruption.

For the other aliens, it's just recognizing the tropes that make them the way they are. Orks are violent scavengers capable of making functional machinery out of garbage-- they could be replaced with a diminituve reptilian or avian race to play on this, like velociraptors in space. Eldar are the condescending forerunners who look down on everyone despite being reduced to near-irrelevance after being FUBAR'd by their own superior technology-- in this case, they could be a race of humanoids with advanced, almost-magical technology that allows them to more-or-less safely harness Subspace energy... except for that one time where they catastrophically destroyed almost their entire empire. Tyranids are a pretty typical devourer-alien, so they can be replaced easily by a reskin without any fear of litigation.

All of this not only makes an easy framework for any future WH40K mod, it would also easily stand on its own as a WH40K-inspired setting if it was fleshed out a bit more. Also, sorry for the wall of text. At least I formatted it.

These are all just ideas I'm tossing out there, and I'm sure there are better worldbuilders than me on this forum. The point is, be inspired by Warhammer 40K, but make this your own game. Let the mods come sooner or later, but don't rely on them to make your game great.
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Retropunch

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3356 on: August 16, 2016, 04:25:32 pm »

--snip--
Whilst I think a generic platform for others to build their own worlds would be very well recieved, an awesomely built world like that would be great. Although, if you do go down that route, I'd suggest you make it a little bit more unique, just because that'd be a draw within itself.

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With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.

Radio Controlled

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3357 on: August 16, 2016, 04:27:15 pm »

Nice work dirtcopter, even if it's just some rough ideas thrown out there, it's a nice example of what could be done with the game. And it's quite decent worldbuilding actually!
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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3358 on: August 17, 2016, 08:44:08 am »

Oh, and the bad guys need to be called Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
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NivlacSupreme

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #3359 on: August 19, 2016, 11:38:15 am »

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/02/trademark-bully-thwarted-spots-space-marine-back-online

the fact that gw can't win doesn't mean gwq can't fight - where not for high caliber free speech advocates weighting in, it would have been a long and drawn out legal battle, with both sides losing gobs of money - except one side does tons more and it's just operating cost, and one side would bankrupt.

I think you seriously misread that article. No one was getting taken to court (they didn't even send out a C&D), they just asked Amazon to take it down. As we can see though, that is due to the specific name 'space marine' and it was quickly quashed.

Many companies will go after the names of their central IP (take the whole SoaSE: Rebellion debacle) mostly just to show that they're serious about keeping that trademark (there's some grey area over not enforcing copyright in law). As Space Marines are pretty much the main thing in W40k, they're obviously going to try to protect that name - even if it's ridiculous. More than that though, there's a chance that the book might have looked like it was produced by GW - this is again something that they'll make claims against.

Now if the book was called 'Spot the space officer' there's not a chance they could even initiate that. Not even slightly.

As this showed NO ONE WAS TAKEN TO COURT. Just don't use any of the GW names. Call men marines, tanks blastboxes and so on. Again, they have to have something CONCRETE to get you on. To make it simple for you, here are a list of all GW trademark names: https://www.hiveworldterra.co.uk/GWtm.html
Don't use that or any GW sourced assets or resources and NO ONE CAN DO ANYTHING. NO COURT. NO NOTHING. EVER.

do they have a trademark on the word Armageddon or the game or is it the planet?
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