Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Retropunch]

I am basically open to whichever suits you guys more, so I'd like to get your opinions on which would be more appealing, or whether it just doesn't matter and it would only be interesting as a finished game regardless.

Everyone here has waited YEARS for DF to evolve, and we'd happily wait for this to become a fully polished game engine.

However, I think most of these projects fail and slow down because they don't get enough actual gameplay in. I've seen so many projects here die away because they haven't been able to deliver anything to actually play. Eventually the creator gets tired/listless, and there isn't the support and push of a community that loves the game to push it forward, as they haven't actually played anything.

I'd suggest get the basic game play elements in - give us the most simplest, cut down version of CM ever, and then work on improving it part by part. This also has the added bonus of having a horde of play testers to guide you, and you can work on making each part shine, whilst not having to worry that progress is going ultra slowly.

[TrashMan]

If the chapters stay in the showcase as the game moves further, it's worth noting that the Space Wolves, Salamanders, Black Templar, Grey Knights and Dark Angels all have some special-snowflake chapter design which might push the boundaries of the flexibility of your system.
(The original CM was awful at accommodating these.)

I wouldn't call them Special Snowflake, since the codex organization is BS anyway.
The tactics in the codex are what's important to follow. Weather your company has 100 marines or 120 or 200 - it doesn't really matter, as long as you don't go (greatly) over 1000 (10000?).

My advice - don't hardcode company size. Set the default to 100, but let the player be able to adjust it. It's just for organizational purposes anyway.
And you could move brothers between companies anyway, so there's nothing preventing you from every company having the composition you want.
You could completely remove the all-devastator or all-assault companies, or have 1 terminator in every company or whatever.

[TrashMan]

So as you say, having one squad that contains all of your most experienced, well-equipped and powerful soldiers would be a prime source of Insurrection (Corruption) growing amidst your ranks.

didn't you just describe the 1st Company?

[ZebioLizard2]

If the chapters stay in the showcase as the game moves further, it's worth noting that the Space Wolves, Salamanders, Black Templar, Grey Knights and Dark Angels all have some special-snowflake chapter design which might push the boundaries of the flexibility of your system.
(The original CM was awful at accommodating these.)

I wouldn't call them Special Snowflake, since the codex organization is BS anyway.
The tactics in the codex are what's important to follow. Weather your company has 100 marines or 120 or 200 - it doesn't really matter, as long as you don't go (greatly) over 1000 (10000?).

The whole Codex Organization was made so that entire swaths of space marines couldn't turn at the same time by keeping a degree of independence which is one of the few things it has kept from going on, while some chapters turn you don't see some odd 10,000+ turning at once.. And I would call the Space Wolves a bit special snowflake due to their whole free Librarian thing because they weren't hit by the same edict because of the "Spirit of Fenris" warp nonsense, but thats another issue entirely.

[Guardsman111]

I am basically open to whichever suits you guys more, so I'd like to get your opinions on which would be more appealing, or whether it just doesn't matter and it would only be interesting as a finished game regardless.

Everyone here has waited YEARS for DF to evolve, and we'd happily wait for this to become a fully polished game engine.

However, I think most of these projects fail and slow down because they don't get enough actual gameplay in. I've seen so many projects here die away because they haven't been able to deliver anything to actually play. Eventually the creator gets tired/listless, and there isn't the support and push of a community that loves the game to push it forward, as they haven't actually played anything.

I'd suggest get the basic game play elements in - give us the most simplest, cut down version of CM ever, and then work on improving it part by part. This also has the added bonus of having a horde of play testers to guide you, and you can work on making each part shine, whilst not having to worry that progress is going ultra slowly.

For what its worth, I'm agreeing with this guy. Put some basic gameplay in, the ability to combat and move marines around (maybe stick to "teleportation" instead on implementing fleets and loading troops and stuff) so we have something to play with and keep us interested.

As always, thanks for the effort your putting in.

[TrashMan]

I wouldn't call them Special Snowflake, since the codex organization is BS anyway.
The tactics in the codex are what's important to follow. Weather your company has 100 marines or 120 or 200 - it doesn't really matter, as long as you don't go (greatly) over 1000 (10000?).

The whole Codex Organization was made so that entire swaths of space marines couldn't turn at the same time by keeping a degree of independence which is one of the few things it has kept from going on, while some chapters turn you don't see some odd 10,000+ turning at once.. And I would call the Space Wolves a bit special snowflake due to their whole free Librarian thing because they weren't hit by the same edict because of the "Spirit of Fenris" warp nonsense, but thats another issue entirely.

Well, not a big SW fan, so I won't comment on that.

But organization on a company level is mostly irrelevant. Chapter size is what's there to prevent huge power in one place

If you want tighter companies, then they would all be mixed and fixed (no serving in 9'th, then moving to 5'th, then to 6'th.). In fact, that's how my own DIY chapter operates. More independant and self-sufficient companies.

[Tack]

Independent and self-sufficient companies is Iron Hands, Space Wolves and Salamanders.
Heck, Iron Hands have their warleaders elected by a council of clans, Old-rome style.

Regardless of whether 'snowflake' as a derogatory factors into it, it's worth noting that ~1000 chapters of space marines follow codex company organization, and ~6 don't (Plus everyone's homebrew chapters which, we'll be honest, would be Celestial Lions'd pretty quickly.)

Point being, the number and strength of your companies is just as important anti-heresy-wise as the max numbers on a chapter (Of which the Space Wolves and Black Templar still don't comply to).

[TrashMan]

Independent and self-sufficient companies is Iron Hands, Space Wolves and Salamanders.
Heck, Iron Hands have their warleaders elected by a council of clans, Old-rome style.

Regardless of whether 'snowflake' as a derogatory factors into it, it's worth noting that ~1000 chapters of space marines follow codex company organization, and ~6 don't (Plus everyone's homebrew chapters which, we'll be honest, would be Celestial Lions'd pretty quickly.)

Point being, the number and strength of your companies is just as important anti-heresy-wise as the max numbers on a chapter (Of which the Space Wolves and Black Templar still don't comply to).

Not really.
The point of the split was to prevent too many astartes under one command.
More independant companies make an entire chapter falling LESS likely, while maybe increasing the chance of a company falling. But then again, that's what the split did in the first place too, didn't it? With legion splitting, you have less of a chance of an entire leagion going heretic, but chapters can go heretic.

Long story short - the number of marines in a company/squad has little to do with heresy, and the 100 number isn't magically optimal. GW is retarded because it keeps pushing the Codex Astartes as some perfect strict organization guide instead of a book of military wisdom/tactics/strategies. Alas, the GW writers know jack shit about miltiary organization.

[Tack]

Disagree wholeheartedly.
The Ultramarines are retarded for pushing the Codex Astartes as a perfect strict organization guide. GW telling that as a story is perfectly acceptable and I approve of the 'it is the 40,000th millennium and humans are still dumb' aesop.

But however you want to rant and rave and make arguments about nothing, my original point was that the current chapter master does NOT allow for non-codex-compliant chapters, and I asked Flow if it was feasible to make a system which DID.
Which will be happening, and that's great.

In any case, if we want to blow hot air about why the codex chapter organisation is or isn't a dumb idea, we should go do it elsewhere.

[Acceleration]

Question!

I am very aware that this process is likely not very exciting for observers. Programming is slow, especially when I'm only doing it in small chunks in my free time between work and on weekends. And given my current focus of perfecting the interface and slowly adding new systems and screens, each new version adds very little "real" progress for those following along. So there's another route I could go down:

Option A: Continue as I am, build up the various interfaces and screens in the game, adding the gameplay elements as they organically appear. This would be the "proper" way to do it and will require the least backtracking, but will be the slowest path to playability.

Option B: Focus on gameplay as a priority, so I will first finish off regiment creation and then go straight to the map movement and combat systems so there are things to actually do. Likely events after that, then factions, and ultimately customisation and intricate detail will come last after the basic systems arei n place. This will result in the fastest playable version releases, but may involve longer periods of fine tuning and bugfixing.

I am basically open to whichever suits you guys more, so I'd like to get your opinions on which would be more appealing, or whether it just doesn't matter and it would only be interesting as a finished game regardless.

Flow, don't worry about us, you should focus on what is fun for you in making the game. If you worry about what the community expects too much you'll be unhappy throughout the development.

Good luck and keep on truckin'.

[TrashMan]

The Ultramarines are retarded for pushing the Codex Astartes as a perfect strict organization guide.

Are they even doing that?
Bottom point - GW is shit.

[ZebioLizard2]

The Ultramarines are retarded for pushing the Codex Astartes as a perfect strict organization guide.

Are they even doing that?
Bottom point - GW is shit.

Not really, it tends to flip flop from various marines in the chapter now, you've got some that "It's perfect, don't change!" To "As Gulliman intended, it's an everchanging guide like Sun Tzu!" sorts of Ultramarines, depends on the writer of the day usually, but people tend to forget that the codex says itself it is not perfect as tactics change overtime, as the Tyrannic War proved to the Ultramarines.

GW is.. surprisingly trying lately, allowing Total warhammer to use mods, they are starting to get into the tournament scene and helping groups, they are actually putting FAQS and such and letting fans look them over, they have people actually talking with the community, they are even bringing several styles of play to Age of Sigmar, which includes points for various styles of play....

I mean they have a loooong way to go for themselves, but they are at least trying recently, seems like having a new CEO has helped shake some things up.

[Darkboy]

10 000 Space Marines isn't a Chapter, it is pretty much a Legion.

YES!

Roleplaying as E-Man leading his LEGIONS on the great crusade is going to be just plain sweet.

[nenjin]

I figure that would be hard to do. The Great Crusade to me is so great because of all the different xenos and human cultures it encounters (and kills *ahem*.) To me it would be the Great Crusade if you're just mowing down, you know, Orks and "unidentified Xenos."

[Tack]

Wouldn't mind doing the Macharian crusade, although you'd need to mod the 'Vacuum Seamen' to be Imperial Guard.