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Author Topic: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!  (Read 810123 times)

Dorsidwarf

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1605 on: May 27, 2015, 06:07:04 am »

Liber Celi was talking about making an Imperial Guard simulator, similar to Chapter Master except dealing with the innumerable thousands of men with flashlights, rather than some sort of update to Chapter Master, I'm pretty sure
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puke

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1606 on: May 27, 2015, 06:07:46 am »

Ah, so he was.
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overlordjebus

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1607 on: May 27, 2015, 08:05:01 am »

So if I understand correctly, Raids reduce enemy presence by 2 and have a far higher chance of melee due to starting closer to the enemy and also you can't use vehicles.
Attacks reduce by 1 but you can use more range and vehicles?
So theoretically, Raids should be super good against things like Tau/IG as they suck in melee, whilst Attacks should be good against everything else, except maybe Eldar who are just dicks no matter what?

In reality though, dropping 1000 marines on anything is pretty much a win, so always Raid if you have a large force?


I've yet to have a reason for it but is there any reason to leave garrisons of marines? I assume a bonus defense if you decide to dig in and a bonus in attack if you choose to attack?

Duke, how about if we choose to defend, we can choose to team up with the local IG or PDF, and they are represented on the battle screen?
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Puzzlemaker

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1608 on: May 27, 2015, 08:09:56 am »

I couldn't decide how many zones there should be, though.  From what I read, on a hive planet there could be as many as 20 hive cities, leaving only 5 for other features.  One option is to have zones be able to contain multiple features, but that could get messy and annoying.  Maybe a 5x5 grid, so 25 squares total?  Or 6x6, so 36 squares, so you could have water and other stuff on a planet.  Of course, I would have to implement an A* pathing algorithm for invading forces, but that would be super easy yet annoying.
I'm just spitballing here, basically, and I'm certainly not trying to talk you into tackle a task that herculean, but I'd have a suggestion or two for planetary combat. The sort that would probably not work for Chapter Master, but probably for Lord General Militant.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...why did I put that much thought into this again?

So this is an interesting idea... lets talk about it.

The easiest way to implement it would be a Veronoi Diagram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voronoi_diagram).  This would let me easily split up the features on the map, draw lines between them, etc.  Then it's just a matter of coding the AI and moving about the diagram.

However, While it would make combat feel pretty cool and unique (always a plus), a grid-based system could do the same thing if you have the grid pieces small enough (To avoid aliasing of interesting features).  Grid-based would also make it easier to generate the map.

That being said, I do like the idea.  One downside of the grid system would be the micromanagement, while your idea lets you have large-scale battles without having to move a huge amount of guys around.  I could use large grids, but that would lose the ability to have battlefronts.

A hybrid system of some sort would be best... I'll have to think about it.

Now I am excited to code this again.  I'll post an EXE when I have something actually usable.
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nenjin

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1609 on: May 27, 2015, 09:15:09 am »

Seems like it's time to take it to its own thread.
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Puzzlemaker

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1610 on: May 27, 2015, 09:47:13 am »

Seems like it's time to take it to its own thread.

You are probably correct good sir!  I will start a thread once I have something to show.
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Liber celi

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1611 on: May 27, 2015, 09:58:27 am »

So this is an interesting idea... lets talk about it.
Voronoi Diagrams sound very interesting, in any case more interesting than a simple square or hexagonal grid, giving your procedurally generated planets a more unique and possibly more believable look. And it might even allow some elegant solutions for AI and pathfinding problems. Or create those problems in the first place!

And while fine grids would definitely add strategic options and character to the planets, the sheer scale of the game means streamlining must be king. The whole point of playing IG is throwing around millions of soldiers! You'll probably fight on multiple planets at once at any time, given your lower killing power and vastly more inefficient logistics compared to those tiny Astartes chapters. Your numbers make sacrificing a regiment or five to slow down some xenos on a far away planet a viable tactic. You don't have enough ships to gather your troops in one place at any time. And if you do, you probably face a famine. And pestilence! And spontaneous orbital bombardment.

Now I am excited to code this again.  I'll post an EXE when I have something actually usable.
Looking forwards to it!
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Retropunch

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1612 on: May 27, 2015, 03:02:22 pm »

Puzzlemaker - If you are interested in programming, I'd really encourage you to team up with Duke and see if you could incorporate your ideas into chapter master!! Whilst it's nice to have your own product and whatever, a fully fleshed out Chapter Master would be a lot better than a number of smaller individual games. Especially as I imagine a working Chapter Master could easily get turned into a wider W40K simulator.

As far as battles, My main concern is balancing the number of battles to the complexity of battles. You probably wouldn't want to go through the whole point capturing thing if you've got 100 battles per game, but you would if you're only averaging 10-20. Something like Dominons battles (you just select the formations) as well as a bit of in-battle tactics (such as issuing commands at various phases) could add all the interest the player would really need.
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Puzzlemaker

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1613 on: May 27, 2015, 03:29:58 pm »

So this is an interesting idea... lets talk about it.
Voronoi Diagrams sound very interesting, in any case more interesting than a simple square or hexagonal grid, giving your procedurally generated planets a more unique and possibly more believable look. And it might even allow some elegant solutions for AI and pathfinding problems. Or create those problems in the first place!

And while fine grids would definitely add strategic options and character to the planets, the sheer scale of the game means streamlining must be king. The whole point of playing IG is throwing around millions of soldiers! You'll probably fight on multiple planets at once at any time, given your lower killing power and vastly more inefficient logistics compared to those tiny Astartes chapters. Your numbers make sacrificing a regiment or five to slow down some xenos on a far away planet a viable tactic. You don't have enough ships to gather your troops in one place at any time. And if you do, you probably face a famine. And pestilence! And spontaneous orbital bombardment.

Now I am excited to code this again.  I'll post an EXE when I have something actually usable.
Looking forwards to it!

My current idea is to have multi-tile armies.  That would be the best of both worlds, as far as I can tell.

Puzzlemaker - If you are interested in programming, I'd really encourage you to team up with Duke and see if you could incorporate your ideas into chapter master!! Whilst it's nice to have your own product and whatever, a fully fleshed out Chapter Master would be a lot better than a number of smaller individual games. Especially as I imagine a working Chapter Master could easily get turned into a wider W40K simulator.

As far as battles, My main concern is balancing the number of battles to the complexity of battles. You probably wouldn't want to go through the whole point capturing thing if you've got 100 battles per game, but you would if you're only averaging 10-20. Something like Dominons battles (you just select the formations) as well as a bit of in-battle tactics (such as issuing commands at various phases) could add all the interest the player would really need.

Yeah, I am hoping to do that.  I sent him a message about a week ago or something, but he hasn't gotten back to me.  I should probably have sent him an e-mail.  One big problem is that the engine for Chapter Master is Game Maker, while I am using Unity.  Unity is a better engine, but Game Maker is much easier to work with.  I don't particularly want to mess with Game Maker, and moving Chapter Master over to Unity would require a re-write.  I am willing to work with Duke, but ultimately it's up to him.

As for battles, I was thinking something similar.  Very similar, in fact.

Edit:  Lets wait till I have an EXE to continue this discussion, I don't want to clutter this thread.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 03:37:24 pm by Puzzlemaker »
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UXLZ

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1614 on: May 27, 2015, 06:10:56 pm »

I ran into a seemingly odd bug/ No crash, but after I hit enter to start a ship combat battle the screen faded to black and didn't come back. Anyone else seen something similar?

Also, I was thinking... A really sweet 40K game would be something like God Save the Queen, but in the Grimhammer universe. Hell, if I was a better artist and knew how to code I'd start making it myself. :v
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Retropunch

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1615 on: May 28, 2015, 01:16:17 am »

Yeah, I am hoping to do that.  I sent him a message about a week ago or something, but he hasn't gotten back to me.  I should probably have sent him an e-mail.  One big problem is that the engine for Chapter Master is Game Maker, while I am using Unity.  Unity is a better engine, but Game Maker is much easier to work with.  I don't particularly want to mess with Game Maker, and moving Chapter Master over to Unity would require a re-write.  I am willing to work with Duke, but ultimately it's up to him.

As for battles, I was thinking something similar.  Very similar, in fact.

Great to hear. I would say though that GML is incredibly easy if you've got experience with Unity. I'm sure you could pick it up in a few days (there's a lot of documentation and help around for it) and it'd be much easier than porting it. I'm looking forward to the exe regardless!!
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halosammy

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1616 on: May 28, 2015, 02:21:42 am »

Going to be completely honest here. I am wholeheartedly opposed to porting Chapter Master to Unity, as well as Puzzlemaster's willingness to get his own Chapter Master style game off the ground.

1. Going through a months long process to recreate an entire game on the unity engine might cause the dev cycle to burn out.

2. Keeping to one definitive edition of chapter master will keep funding focused, and avoid the problems that games such as Nethack face such as conflicting editions by different devs. As for the funding, Chapter Master hasn't even reached the full-time development stretch goal yet. The last thing it needs is another game sucking up funding.

3. If Puzzlemaster is willing to work for free, I think his efforts would be much better suited for accelerating development of Duke's version. I still want Duke to stay as head developer to keep creative design choices from conflicting.

tl/dr: BAD IDEA!
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dennislp3

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1617 on: May 28, 2015, 02:27:30 am »

I don't recall there being any finding for chapter master? Unless I missed something...and I don't recall any plans for "full time development"

As for porting to Unity I would say it should be done. I have seen the code of the game and it has a lot of spaghetti code from when it started out. That was being corrected over time but I am sure the game could benefit from a rewrite !!IF!! The people doing it are willing to do it and stick with it. I can understand why Duke hasn't done so yet because it is a hobby and he is intimately familiar with GameMaker as opposed to Unity
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puke

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1618 on: May 28, 2015, 02:34:14 am »

I agree in principal, the game we have and the progress Duke is making is better than the promise of something possibly better in the future.  Also, consider that this stuff will only live as long as it can fly under the GW radar, and that you shouldn't really be planning in terms of it being sustainable for 10 years of ongoing development and porting to multiple platforms and such.

That said, I think there is room for additional fan games in similar veins.

I don't think he should be cloning CM, but there is totally room for something like SM Company Captain or IG Regemental Commander as their own games.

Some of the concepts being discussed sound better suited to that sort of thing anyway, and more products in a marketplace are better for an industry as a whole.  Lets build a diamond district, right?
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halosammy

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1619 on: May 28, 2015, 02:41:01 am »

I don't recall there being any finding for chapter master? Unless I missed something...and I don't recall any plans for "full time development"

As for porting to Unity I would say it should be done. I have seen the code of the game and it has a lot of spaghetti code from when it started out. That was being corrected over time but I am sure the game could benefit from a rewrite !!IF!! The people doing it are willing to do it and stick with it. I can understand why Duke hasn't done so yet because it is a hobby and he is intimately familiar with GameMaker as opposed to Unity

Duke has a Patreon page. It's linked in the 1d4chan page on the game. The stretch goal for ful, time development is 700 dollars, and we are about 53 away from that. Please pester every upper-middle class suburbanite you know to get them to contribute!
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