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Author Topic: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!  (Read 807557 times)

dennislp3

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1590 on: May 25, 2015, 03:15:38 pm »

I am pretty sure you pull psykers from the ranks of your marines...so unfortunately that wont work...but I renamed them suitably...padawans galore
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GentlemanRaptor

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1591 on: May 25, 2015, 03:17:25 pm »

I have a planet with two quadrillion imperial guard on it.

Quoting an older post, but I'm pretty sure one of my planets had 75 quintillion IG.

If you give those men 1/2 a square meter to stand on, each, you'll need a planet fifty-seven times larger than jupiter.

And yet they're still slower to deal with tyrannid threats than a few hundred spessmahrines

EDIT: Whoops, that would be for 7 quintillion. For 76 quintillion you'd need 6.2 sun-sized planets

Relevant:

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Puzzlemaker

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1592 on: May 26, 2015, 05:49:44 pm »

So!

I decided in my amazing wisdom that I wanted to practice with the Unity game engine.  As it's hard to get motivated, I decided to latch onto my recent Chapter Master binge funtime and make a starmap generator.  I almost have trade working, so hive worlds will trade with agri worlds to survive and mining worlds will provide raw materials for industry.  Right now they just starve to death, hehe.  I also have ships working, but all they do is fly around randomly.

The UI is nonexistant, and everything was made in paint, but I am pretty proud of it for some reason. 

I don't want to step on any toes, I just did this for fun (Duke, if you want me to send you the project or halt production just ask).

I was thinking about plinking away at this some more for funsies.  Any suggestions?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 05:55:44 pm by Puzzlemaker »
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UXLZ

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1593 on: May 26, 2015, 06:01:49 pm »

A more in-depth battle system? :v
Though that would require coding the units, and attacks, and weapons, and armor, and... Well, so on and so forth.
Just so there's more to battles than 'press enter until everyone dies.' (Though to be fair, I think that sort of system *could* work if we could get really good writing and 'events' into the combat, just so it's super entertaining to read. Admittedly, it would wear off after a time so something with more depth would also be cool.)
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Liber celi

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1594 on: May 26, 2015, 06:14:26 pm »

If you want to do something WH40k with it, I've seen some demand in this thread and elsewhere for an Imperial Guard simulator. It would need a very different UI and somewhat different gameplay from CM: single guardsmen are irrelevant (except for a handful of high officers and war heroes) and loading a hundred ships the way CM handles it would be torture. Battles would be much larger in scale, planetwide I think, and you'd probably have options for strategy instead of tactics. I think that Only War RPG has a regiment generator that might be inspirational.

If you feel original you could of course create your own bizarre science fiction 'verse. With giant space hamsters! Or something!
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UXLZ

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1595 on: May 26, 2015, 06:17:17 pm »

That could be a warp event.

Boo can see you coming, but you'll never see him until it's far too late...
Then again, he was a miniature giant space hamster.
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nenjin

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1596 on: May 26, 2015, 06:17:59 pm »

A more in-depth battle system? :v
Though that would require coding the units, and attacks, and weapons, and armor, and... Well, so on and so forth.
Just so there's more to battles than 'press enter until everyone dies.' (Though to be fair, I think that sort of system *could* work if we could get really good writing and 'events' into the combat, just so it's super entertaining to read. Admittedly, it would wear off after a time so something with more depth would also be cool.)

The problem with combat in my mind isn't that it's automated. It's just entirely too deterministic most of the time. Whether battles are pre-calculated or w/e, they seem to play out the same way most of the time. Like, battles against strength 2 or 3 forces almost never result in seeing your psykers do anything. The casualty results are usually identical. Nothing special or unexpected happens.

I get no sense of chance or of the deeper mechanics at play until the battles get really large. Then suddenly all this stuff comes out of the woodwork, my officers get involved in the fight, daemons pop out, etc...

I mean, maybe the plan was to not let smaller battles potentially eat away at important units, so they just don't get involved until a certain threshold. It'd certainly be annoying to lose an officer when an entire company is deployed against a Strength 2 or 3 force. But on the other hand....it shows, because those battles feel essentially meaningless.

Either way, battles feel like a forgone conclusion whether you're winning or losing. Which is bearable until you start losing badly.

I think part of the issue is the game having to account too for anywhere from 1 Marine to your ENTIRE Chapter in a fight. Combat, while having all the RPG and individual unit crunchiness you could ask for, ends up feeling like Risk at the end of the day.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 06:32:33 pm by nenjin »
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UXLZ

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1597 on: May 26, 2015, 06:27:20 pm »

I think the other issue is the scaling/composition of the enemy forces (and how overpowered raids are.)

As far as I can tell, each state of enemy forces is identical if you engage the same challenge rating in the same way. It may just be that there are a few states and I keep getting the same one, but I think it would be more interesting if each challenge rating and enemy unit was allocated a certain number of points (itself also possibly being in a range) and then the game RNG'd the enemy force composition from there.

Admittedly though, we've got to try and remember to save processor power. I mean, ideally I'd say for units to fire as maybe squads rather than unit types, but that would take a fair amount of calculating. (Also, with the current combat UI and system it would clutter it a hell of a lot.)
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Puzzlemaker

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1598 on: May 26, 2015, 08:40:54 pm »

I was actually thinking about making an imperial guard type thingy, but honestly in the end it would be very similar to chapter master.  As for combat, I was planning to make each planet a grid of zones that can be fought over.

I couldn't decide how many zones there should be, though.  From what I read, on a hive planet there could be as many as 20 hive cities, leaving only 5 for other features.  One option is to have zones be able to contain multiple features, but that could get messy and annoying.  Maybe a 5x5 grid, so 25 squares total?  Or 6x6, so 36 squares, so you could have water and other stuff on a planet.  Of course, I would have to implement an A* pathing algorithm for invading forces, but that would be super easy yet annoying.

All that is pretty pie in the sky though, it really is very skeletal at this point.  One of my main goals with this was to mess with complicated systems in unity, so making a living world would be my first goal, combat later.  Trade is SURPRISINGLY hard to code, I spent an entire weekend thinking about how I should implement it.  Eventually I decided on Trade Routes ALA CIV5, as opposed to my original idea which was individual ships that would move goods based on needs, since as it turns out that is really, really hard to implement well (I tried).  If someone has a nice algorithm for that, let me know.

But yeah, settling on simple trade routes where planet X gives Y to planet Z every month is good.  It would mean smaller planets wouldn't be part of the trade network, but I can still have individual ships going around doing things (Like collecting tithes and the like), which should be easier to manage and still give the illusion of a living world.  Plus it seems closer to fluff, I think a lot of the smaller civilized worlds don't get ships visiting all that often

I do feel badly though, I don't want to mess with the thing Duke has going on, or leech from it's popularity, but I guess that's what I am doing... May spin it off into a different world, but until then I'll keep messing with it.  Not tonight though, I am tired.
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The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.

UXLZ

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1599 on: May 26, 2015, 08:45:14 pm »

Firstly, are you actually making a functioning game? How's it gonna leech popularity?

All the experimenting you do can only help.
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Ahhh~ She looked into your eyes,
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Don't try to save yourself,
The circle is complete.

nenjin

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1600 on: May 26, 2015, 08:50:28 pm »

Secondly, the Eternal War on Boredom will refuse no Good Soldier.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Rolepgeek

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1601 on: May 26, 2015, 10:26:10 pm »

You could combine nearby Hive Cities, make it into a 'area of the world' rather than a 'this is a feature of land/sea', and have the things in it give modifiers to combat in it.
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Liber celi

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1602 on: May 27, 2015, 04:25:01 am »

I couldn't decide how many zones there should be, though.  From what I read, on a hive planet there could be as many as 20 hive cities, leaving only 5 for other features.  One option is to have zones be able to contain multiple features, but that could get messy and annoying.  Maybe a 5x5 grid, so 25 squares total?  Or 6x6, so 36 squares, so you could have water and other stuff on a planet.  Of course, I would have to implement an A* pathing algorithm for invading forces, but that would be super easy yet annoying.
I'm just spitballing here, basically, and I'm certainly not trying to talk you into tackle a task that herculean, but I'd have a suggestion or two for planetary combat. The sort that would probably not work for Chapter Master, but probably for Lord General Militant.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...why did I put that much thought into this again?
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 04:27:12 am by Liber celi »
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1603 on: May 27, 2015, 05:45:12 am »

That seems like a really cool idea. I love the fact that you're considering the importance of Fronts. Obviously that's not an issue for the "Pinpoint strike of death" space marines style, but for the Guard, it's vital
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puke

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Re: Chapter Master - In the name of the Emperor!
« Reply #1604 on: May 27, 2015, 06:03:52 am »

That seems like a really cool idea. I love the fact that you're considering the importance of Fronts. Obviously that's not an issue for the "Pinpoint strike of death" space marines style, but for the Guard, it's vital

Fronts are important for Marines, so that they can stay behind them.

I'm not super interested in managing battles in a game like this, though.  I like the formation stuff, but I'd think that the specific details of a planetary invasion would be delegated down to a company commander or something.  Not the Chapter Master's job.

On the other hand, a "Company Commander" game would be pretty swanky.  Manage just a few ships, and only enough marines that alliances and IG / militia support are actually an important factor.  Individual marines and wargear become more significant, and the details of how you assault a planet begin to make a big difference.

But that's a different game.
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