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Author Topic: Quick question about DF releases  (Read 1911 times)

TurboSlug22

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Quick question about DF releases
« on: August 19, 2014, 08:41:32 pm »

Hi guys,

So I assume because its not happening that there's a valid reason but I was wondering whats holding back the latest builds of DF from being released daily via torrent?

I mean, I don't want to suggest any dissatisfaction with the massive number of bugfixes that cool awesome people have been working daily to fix... but those devblogs are really a tease early in the week. Am I right?... All the worst bugs seem to be squished on Monday and Tuesday lately lol

Serious question...
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MrWiggles

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Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2014, 08:43:47 pm »

ToadyOne to my knowledge hasn't commented on why he doesn't do Nightly builds.

Probably because they don't want to, or feel that its not woth the time to do it.
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Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2014, 08:46:29 pm »

ToadyOne to my knowledge hasn't commented on why he doesn't do Nightly builds.

Probably because they don't want to, or feel that its not woth the time to do it.

Probably he only wants to show the version editions and the bugfixes when he feels they are ready, since the game would have bugs that wouldn't the the fun kind, but the fun-killing kind.
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TurboSlug22

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Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2014, 08:48:24 pm »

ToadyOne to my knowledge hasn't commented on why he doesn't do Nightly builds.

Probably because they don't want to, or feel that its not woth the time to do it.

Probably he only wants to show the version editions and the bugfixes when he feels they are ready, since the game would have bugs that wouldn't the the fun kind, but the fun-killing kind.

So not an official release but a nightly public beta? :3

EDIT: Ok not beta but you know what I mean, like nightly public development/test release
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MrWiggles

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Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2014, 08:55:28 pm »

How is that different from what you asked intially?
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TurboSlug22

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Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2014, 08:59:46 pm »

Ah sorry : (

I was just responding to the other guy's suggestion of why it might not be possible by suggesting that if the nightly build was presented as a test release and not an official release that game breaking things could be forgiven because we accepted that risk when trying out the nightly build...

I'm just trying to understand that's all : \

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palu

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Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2014, 09:14:52 pm »

public beta? :3
DF itself is an alpha.
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2014, 09:24:23 pm »

If I recall correctly Toady doesn't actually do version control. Properly, at least. I'm also fairly sure he has said in the past that he doesn't like releasing things until he's happy with it.
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Miuramir

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Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2014, 09:53:16 pm »

So I assume because its not happening that there's a valid reason but I was wondering whats holding back the latest builds of DF from being released daily via torrent?

I mean, I don't want to suggest any dissatisfaction with the massive number of bugfixes that cool awesome people have been working daily to fix...

Your post seems to imply some unfamiliarity behind the way DF happens.  The "studio" is precisely two guys, only one of whom is technical; Toady One does all the code, all the design docs, all the systems engineering, all the bugfixing, all the internal IT work, all the building, and so on; he's also responsible for a good fraction of the creative work, which is partly shared with his brother along with things like doing the financial statements and the donor rewards.  Most of their IT infrastructure is in their apartment. 

Until quite recently, it wasn't unusual for the game to go months, and in some cases years, between releases; much of the intervening time the code was "up on blocks" and not compilable due to major rewrites of underlying structure.  The build process took about a full day, during which coding, bugfixing, etc. wasn't happening.  Our understanding is that recent improvements have gotten the build process down to "a few hours", but that's still time not spent fixing bugs or writing new features.  With the exception of rare "hotfix" releases like 0.40.08 to 0.40.09, weekly seems to be a reasonable tempo; much more often, and he's wasting more time building than makes sense. 

Now, in an ideal fantasy world, having an automated build farm and modern version control that did all that at the push of a couple of easy command lines, and did so away from the computer you're working on (and outside of the un-airconditioned apartment you're trying to sleep in), might result in updates more often *some* of the time.  But that takes a considerable amount of time to set up and even more to learn; and non-negligible resources to keep running. 

I'll also point out again that this is an *early* alpha, well under half feature complete.  On a normally paced game studio, we'd probably be at least a year out before the first horribly bug-ridden NDA-required closed betas.  The fact that the game is playable at all is *astounding*; most software wouldn't even run at this early a stage, let alone do anything useful, let alone fun.  And remember most studios have one to two orders of magnitude more people, each of which is probably individually making more than the entire DF "studio", not counting perks like coffee or health insurance. 
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TurboSlug22

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Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2014, 10:05:06 pm »

Until quite recently, it wasn't unusual for the game to go months, and in some cases years, between releases; much of the intervening time the code was "up on blocks" and not compilable due to major rewrites of underlying structure.  The build process took about a full day, during which coding, bugfixing, etc. wasn't happening.  Our understanding is that recent improvements have gotten the build process down to "a few hours", but that's still time not spent fixing bugs or writing new features.  With the exception of rare "hotfix" releases like 0.40.08 to 0.40.09, weekly seems to be a reasonable tempo; much more often, and he's wasting more time building than makes sense. 

Sorry I wasn't aware that there was significant time required for compiling.. This thread has all the wrong energy I'm genuinely sorry I was just trying to understand but this explains it.. Thank you

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MrWiggles

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Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2014, 05:07:47 am »

This thread is pretty chill. Now if you want to see Bay12 gets their jimmies rustled, ask or demand that the game be made open source.
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Getix Kain

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Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2014, 05:34:46 am »

This thread is pretty chill. Now if you want to see Bay12 gets their jimmies rustled, ask or demand that the game be made open source.

Or ask for the 1.0 release date  :o
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Dame de la Licorne

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Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2014, 06:53:59 am »

Hiya,

This thread is pretty chill. Now if you want to see Bay12 gets their jimmies rustled, ask or demand that the game be made open source.

Or ask for the 1.0 release date  :o

Or mention multi-threading the game.

All that aside, the community here tends to be fairly accepting and helpful.

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BoredVirulence

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Re: Quick question about DF releases
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2014, 09:46:44 am »

Hiya,

This thread is pretty chill. Now if you want to see Bay12 gets their jimmies rustled, ask or demand that the game be made open source.

Or ask for the 1.0 release date  :o

Or mention multi-threading the game.

All that aside, the community here tends to be fairly accepting and helpful.

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