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[Orange Wizard]

I put this link into my earlier post, but a new page has since come along.

[Glloyd]

I prefer the sound of an island. Less threat of suddenly collapsing.

But islands aren't independent, which means that we can't host server space for pirates, and we'll have to pay taxes.

Not all islands are claimed, from what I've heard. Besides that, we have options. We could create an artificial island, or try to buy territory from one of the more enterprising nations.

An unclaimed island would be nice too. Any inkling of where some are?

Or any unclaimed territory at all besides Antarcica.

I... would strongly recommend against any micronation plans. You have to realize, it relies entirely on it being more hassle to actually impose your continued allegiance than to just let you secede in practice. Especially in the case of the Internet, you're doomed to failure - for starters, the parent nation controls all the infrastructure, and you have servers (at best). Most likely, you won't be able to accomplish anything, and if you do, against all odds, you'll probably actually get the attention needed to bring your micronation back in line.

That said, if you are really determined for a micronation with an economy based on free Internet, an island is definitely the way to go. Your remote physical location makes secession much more psychologically palatable, and it also enables you to actually implement new Internet infrastructure that can bypass the networks you're trying to replace. That said, the investment required would be astro-fucking-nomical.

Well what do you propose then?

Gently place moon in ocean.

Island get.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Moons don't do gently.

[LordBucket]

where to embark first.

I'm in southern california. Chandler island is on the opposite side of the country as me. It's also, however, the cheapest actual island on the site linked earlier. A casual google search does not reveal anything cheaper.

But at ~200 feet across, I think it's not big enough.

Any idea at how much something like Sealand would cost though?

Quick google search suggests low single digit millions of dollars for an old offshore oil platform.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

We could create an artificial island...

UN says you can't make a nation on it, though.  Besides, that's more expensive than buying an island and declaring ourselves independent, if you want to become a micronation.  We may not get recognized as an independent nation by the main country, but with incentives, smaller ones might listen, which, honestly, is all we could really hope for.

I... would strongly recommend against any micronation plans. You have to realize, it relies entirely on it being more hassle to actually impose your continued allegiance than to just let you secede in practice. Especially in the case of the Internet, you're doomed to failure - for starters, the parent nation controls all the infrastructure, and you have servers (at best). Most likely, you won't be able to accomplish anything, and if you do, against all odds, you'll probably actually get the attention needed to bring your micronation back in line.

That said, if you are really determined for a micronation with an economy based on free Internet, an island is definitely the way to go. Your remote physical location makes secession much more psychologically palatable, and it also enables you to actually implement new Internet infrastructure that can bypass the networks you're trying to replace. That said, the investment required would be astro-fucking-nomical.

You forgot games.  Free internet, and games.

[GavJ]

Law of the sea is a bit complicated, but if you want to control your own laws and stuff on an island (OR an old oil rig or whatever), it goes like this:
24 miles out: most likely, the owner of the nearest coast can exert its laws over you for all kinds of things like taxation and blah blah we don't want.
25-200 miles out: the nearest country cannot exert legal force over you for your lifestyle or general activities, but they do have exclusive economic rights, so you can't go fishing or drill oil or gather rocks or anything. Basically makes it impossible to survive. I guess maybe you could live off of hydroponics or something.
200-350 miles: if the continental shelf extends beyond 200 miles, then up to the edge of the continental shelf, the nearest nation still has economic rights to minerals in the sea bed, but not fishing. Max range on this is 350 miles, so even if the shelf goes further, all rights stop there. It might be difficult to get official nation recognition, but in the meantime, no nation would have a legitimate claim to control or regulate any of your activities. So de facto you are a nation.

I am not sure if any islands actually exists 200+ miles away from any claimed territory by an existing nation. And it'd be almost impossible to build an artificial island outside of a continental shelf.

The best bet (assuming no islands exist, I could be wrong), would be to find some place where the continental shelf goes further than 350 miles, and build an artificial island still on the shelf just outside of that range.


OR


Just get any old island and do whatever you want, then militantly defend its sovereignty until some nations acknowledge your legitimacy. Most importantly the one whose zone you are in. High chance of injury or death or imprisonment.

[TD1]

Duodecim Bay.

Apparently the first bit is twelve in Latin, according to Google Translate.

[Orange Wizard]

After some more reading, it turns out that Sealand beat us to the punch with the Cayman Islands style web hosting. They outlawed child pornography, spamming, and hacking, but everything else is fair game.

Edit: Duodecimo Sinus is "The Twelfth Bay" in Google Translate's Latin.

Editedit: Duodecimosinus fits the bill for long and hard to pronounce.

[Bauglir]

Well what do you propose then?

Not an island. I've gotta endorse the Bucket's suggestion from earlier in the thread - buy a plot of land in a remote area and build stuff there. I'd suggest forest as north as possible, possibly in Canadialand (although as a man who's never so much as left the US, I'm hilariously unqualified to judge the plausibility of that), just spitballing from what he mentioned.

Also I've realized that we're somewhat more serious than I expected, so I'll clarify that I'm probably gonna need more than just the land prices worked out before I chip in - construction, utilities supplies of some kind, that sort of thing that's completely beyond my ken. I'm a shitty investor who's unwilling to take risks, since the money involved puts a roof over my head (and so I'm only willing to stake it on a very good chance of making a home of some kind). In the interests of fairness I might work out a concrete list so that I don't have an opportunity to keep moving the goalposts - and people who actually know what the fuck they're doing can comment on how reasonable said list would be.

EDIT: Although I assume we are going to try and build a fortress tunneled into a mountainside, or a castle if that fails. In any case, legal costs for figuring out the zoning will be top priority.

[TD1]

After some more reading, it turns out that Sealand beat us to the punch with the Cayman Islands style web hosting. They outlawed child pornography, spamming, and hacking, but everything else is fair game.

Edit: Duodecimo Sinus is "The Twelfth Bay" in Google Translate's Latin.

Editedit: Duodecimosinus fits the bill for long and hard to pronounce.

I think it said Sinus also meant Bosom? Otherwise I would have said that too XD

[Bauglir]

Y'know, come to think of it, I think the land is probably going to wind up being the cheap part.

[Orange Wizard]

After some more reading, it turns out that Sealand beat us to the punch with the Cayman Islands style web hosting. They outlawed child pornography, spamming, and hacking, but everything else is fair game.

Edit: Duodecimo Sinus is "The Twelfth Bay" in Google Translate's Latin.

Editedit: Duodecimosinus fits the bill for long and hard to pronounce.

I think it said Sinus also meant Bosom? Otherwise I would have said that too XD

Why wouldn't you want a country called The Twelve Tits?

[Glloyd]

Can we buy a mountain? Land in Nepal's gotta be cheap, right? Or even somewhere in the Yukon. It's pretty much empty.

[Remuthra]

Just get any old island and do whatever you want, then militantly defend its sovereignty until some nations acknowledge your legitimacy. Most importantly the one whose zone you are in. High chance of injury or death or imprisonment.

Less than you'd think, assuming no bad publicity. Conducting a military operation against a tiny island nation like that is just too costly both in public opinion and resources to be viable unless the offending nation has done something to sufficiently provoke action. It's not worth the fuel, ammunition, and bureaucracy, and it portrays the offending nation as authoritarian and militaristic.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Y'know, come to think of it, I think the land is probably going to wind up being the cheap part.

I've been looking up some boat prices.  Ocean-worthy vessels are expensive.

How much do shipping crates cost?  Could use them to build a modular shelter.

If you don’t cross certain legal lines, you may get away with a lot.

This should be our game plan.  Don't really call attention to ourselves, and everything will work out fine.

[Orange Wizard]

I could go down the street and get some shipping containers. Half the bloody city is made of shipping containers.

Spoiler: I'm not kidding. (click to show/hide)