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[EuchreJack]

I'm a tabletop veteran and I was really disappointed with the game. Basically the HP system, artificial difficulty through cheating AI and forced ironman mode are a combination that rubs me the wrong way. For me, the game was driven in the wrong direction by a toxic "git gud nub"-crowd during EA and the desire to become a tactical Dark Souls while failing to catch the essence of that experience. (This coming from a guy who enjoys Darkest Dungeon which sort of does the same thing but actually succeeds in it.)

Still, this is just my personal opinion - just wanted to point out that you can be a grognard who enjoyed tabletop Mordheim and still dislike the game. If you are on the fence, can't you buy the game and test it, then get a refund if you don't like it? I'm not sure if the bad sides become apparent within a couple of hours, tho.

Never played the original tabletop, so I won't be disappointed that way.  Although I generally prefer One-Hit Kills over Barrel of Hitpoints (just makes for a faster game).

I would strongly advise against any sort of reliance on the refund system of Steam.  Rumor has it that you can only get one refund from Steam, with the incredibly rare exception of the developer acknowledging the game as garbage and refunding everyone.

[lordcooper]

Rumour is talking absolute shite then.

I'm not entirely sure where this game's reputation for incredible difficulty comes from either.  I'm no tactical mastermind but it's easy enough to win 80%+ of the missions as long as you don't split your warband up unnecessarily, use common sense in not taking the toughest missions before you know what you're doing, and pick sensible stat/skill recommendations.  Admittedly I've only played as Mercs and Skaven so far, so I guess it might be more difficult as some of the other races.

[nenjin]

Rumour is talking absolute shite then.

I'm not entirely sure where this game's reputation for incredible difficulty comes from either.  I'm no tactical mastermind but it's easy enough to win 80%+ of the missions as long as you don't split your warband up unnecessarily, use common sense in not taking the toughest missions before you know what you're doing, and pick sensible stat/skill recommendations.  Admittedly I've only played as Mercs and Skaven so far, so I guess it might be more difficult as some of the other races.

The problem with the game is that the strategies which work are not fun. There is little flexibility in what you can do and survive, unless you're willing to lose 2 - 3 warband members a mission, which isn't sustainable. Big clusterfuck team fights were actually kinda rare in Mordheim table top. It was way more profitable for both sides to split up and get what they could, and only exploit a single enemy or w/e when it made sense to.

In this it's "blob up or get fucked up." And then it adds insult to injury by giving the AI more HP and in general better stats.

It's manageable but not exceptionally fun, liberating or rewarding for trying different things. Like I said, aesthetically and in terms of the level design vis-a-vis the 3rd person action...I appreciate all that and it worked for me as a Mordheim fan.

But the actual mechanics feel like they were thought up by aliens, or something.

[EuchreJack]

Rumour is talking absolute shite then.

I'm not entirely sure where this game's reputation for incredible difficulty comes from either.  I'm no tactical mastermind but it's easy enough to win 80%+ of the missions as long as you don't split your warband up unnecessarily, use common sense in not taking the toughest missions before you know what you're doing, and pick sensible stat/skill recommendations.  Admittedly I've only played as Mercs and Skaven so far, so I guess it might be more difficult as some of the other races.

The problem with the game is that the strategies which work are not fun. There is little flexibility in what you can do and survive, unless you're willing to lose 2 - 3 warband members a mission, which isn't sustainable. Big clusterfuck team fights were actually kinda rare in Mordheim table top. It was way more profitable for both sides to split up and get what they could, and only exploit a single enemy or w/e when it made sense to.

In this it's "blob up or get fucked up." And then it adds insult to injury by giving the AI more HP and in general better stats.

It's manageable but not exceptionally fun, liberating or rewarding for trying different things. Like I said, aesthetically and in terms of the level design vis-a-vis the 3rd person action...I appreciate all that and it worked for me as a Mordheim fan.

But the actual mechanics feel like they were thought up by aliens, or something.

Picked up the game, and am also confused about where the difficulty is suppose to be (although I'm still starting out, maybe magic user access will change things).  The AI doesn't seem smart enough to avoid my ganging up on its lone units or looting its talisman, the combination of those things leading to victory.  In fact, I generally have to avoid getting victory too soon so I can go around and gather more Wyrdstone, which thankfully does increase the difficulty a bit.

Hm, it seems this review from Rock Paper Shotgun in 2015 was spot on.

...and yet, everything I read on the Steam forums is "plez mak dis easier".  I'm so happy I'm on a forum that embraces true difficulty.  No wonder the devs didn't think it worthwhile to program good AI.

[nenjin]

It gets a little harder later on as their unit diversity and warband size gets bigger. But the formula essentially stays the same.

Hm, it seems this review from Rock Paper Shotgun in 2015 was spot on.

It's got the right of it, but I'd argue about character diversity. There are obvious things to build for and Mordheim's selection of active/passive skills leave a lot to be desired. To the point I had two or three duplicate characters in my warband.

But yeah, the AI is essentially difficult only if you're trying to play the game as if you were playing Mordehim on the table top. As soon as that big team fight starts, the game is more or less over, it's just a matter of whether you will lose any guys or take any injuries. If you can manage to circle all the way around to their wagon without getting their attention, yeah, you can just cripple them right there. (Rarely managed do that because one of their hero units always comes sprinting directly at me because it psychically knows where I am and has a ridiculous amount of Strategic Points. Then the rest of the AI goes "oh they're over there" and starts making their way toward you, except for the odd duck who just climbs up then down then up again on the same spot of terrain.)

The AI doesn't value wyrdstone except as an afterthought, it doesn't care about its wagon and it certainly doesn't care about its guys. Which is ultimately why the game cannot play out in SP like it does on the table top against a human player, or even give you a convincing facsimile of it.

Frankly, I blame the multiplayer. I get why it's important but I don't want to play people on the internet, I wanna play a satisfying SP game. And I think because of the MP component they essentially said "fuck it we did we the best we could" with the AI instead of solving it, because in the end they made the game for MP and the SP and the story, despite how extensive they are, weren't really their priority or the thing they thought would sell the game. I think the game might actually be kinda brilliant in MP because humans care about shit an AI does not and there are zillions of options of how to play it against a human....but I'll never know.

[Mephansteras]

Ultimately that's why I keep passing on it every time it goes on sale. I have zero interest in PvP and the game devs basically said "Screw SP, we don't need money from people who only want that."

[nenjin]

I don't want to do the whole game a disservice. They clearly tried. They just didn't succeed. FWIW I enjoyed the campaign despite the flaws.

[EuchreJack]

Yeah, I've had a couple of losses, so I'm a bit happier.  It can happen!  I also got a win after I was debating on withdrawing, heh.

[Majestic7]

I don't mind difficulty - losing is fun! - but I mind artificial difficulty. That is my difficulty rub regarding Mordheim, AI cheats and has more units in combat etc. So yeah, if you herd them into a chokepoint and bash em on the head, you win almost always. But it is boring way to win, since you are basically fighting against a retarded bodybuilder.

The single player campaign was indeed screwed by combining it with MP. The "git gud" crowd made the developers paranoid that somehow people would "cheat" by building their warband in SP, then kicking people in the head in MP with it. The simplest solution - allowing a different single-player only campaign with different rules - was just ignored despite brought up by multiple fans in EA. That made me and several others give up on the game.

[Retropunch]

I've been so close a few times to getting this when it's come on sale. I love the idea of it - persistent unit campaigns have always been something I'm a huge fan of, although I realise they're really hard to balance.

Do you think they'll ever manage to turn it around, or is it basically just sorta finished now? It's one of those things that if they sound like they might be improving it/going in the right direction, then I'll wait till then, otherwise I'll just go for it on a super cheap sale.

[ZebioLizard2]

I've been so close a few times to getting this when it's come on sale. I love the idea of it - persistent unit campaigns have always been something I'm a huge fan of, although I realise they're really hard to balance.

Do you think they'll ever manage to turn it around, or is it basically just sorta finished now? It's one of those things that if they sound like they might be improving it/going in the right direction, then I'll wait till then, otherwise I'll just go for it on a super cheap sale.

They are no longer working on Mordheim as they are now working on Necromunda.

[nenjin]

I really hope they hired new staff to work on AI for Necromunda. I'm nervous that they immediately went to Mordheim's 40k analog, like they knocked it out of the park with Mordheim or something. If it's just a reskinned Mordheim with guns, it will be a disappointment in the same ways this game was.

Regarded as a highly successful and well-executed endeavour, the Early Access of Mordheim: City of the Damned gathered a vast number of passionate gamers that helped foster an amazing community and improved many aspects of the game. After a strong launch on PC and consoles, and an incredible experience with many lessons learned, the way was paved for our next step in conquering the tactical RPG genre: Necromunda: Underhive Wars.”

I have not met anyone that considered it a well-executed game. Competent in some areas, pretty abysmal in others.

[ndkid]

I feel approximately about this game as I felt about MOO3 back in the day: I hope some modder comes in and completely guts the mechanics. Maybe we can end up with something that's much closer to the spirit of combat of the tabletop version.

[lordcooper]

I don't mind difficulty - losing is fun! - but I mind artificial difficulty. That is my difficulty rub regarding Mordheim, AI cheats and has more units in combat etc.

This is blatantly false.  The AI always has the exact same number of units you do, and even the exact same ratio of leaders/heroes/henchmen/impressives.

[Majestic7]

This is blatantly false.  The AI always has the exact same number of units you do, and even the exact same ratio of leaders/heroes/henchmen/impressives.

Let me rephrase - the AI has more points total for his team. This means better equipment and skills etc per dude, 10% bonus to HP on top of that and other buffs. It was far more blatant before, but as far as I know, it was still the basic modus operandi after release. I don't know if this has been changed after DLC, since I haven't played the game since release.